Home > Furman Bisher > Archives > 2008 > August > 16 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTech looks to its future with patience
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The campus was a-bustle, moms and pops delivering their freshpersons (my word) into the care of Georgia Tech. The stretch of Techwood Drive behind the east stands of Bobby Dodd Stadium had been reduced to a one-way street. It was a clutter of cars jockeying for position, their cargo being unloaded under the guarded attention of campus police, and rug merchants who had set up shop on the busy corner. Growling buses wallowed along through this scene, and strangely enough, no conflicts flared up and no hostile voices rang out. Along Fraternity Row upperclassman were sweeping out, tidying up and fumigating, making their residences palatable for the “rush” season.
I’d clambered through such a scene before myself, when I delivered my own freshman child to the campus. No hugging, no tears, no last-minute counsel. He opened the car door, said a cool goodbye and was gone before I could assemble my platitudes. He knew why he was there, where he was headed, and besides, he was going to be only five miles from home. It’s not the miles that count, to many such youth, I’d say, it would be the first eye-opening day for the rest of their lives.
One parent going through the stage of ” moving on” sat in the office of athletics dirtector. Chris Radakovich was already safely ensconced in a dormitory “just a 9-iron away,” as his father put it. The transition had been quite painless for Dan Radakovich. Chris would be no home body. Campus life for him, and he was already settled in. Chris was the first Radakovich out of the nest, and Ol’ Dad was cool, talking it all in stride. Besides, there were other campus matters that bore more heavily upon him, such as the installation of a new football coach, which brought with it pressure of another nature.
Georgia Tech has been subsisting restlessly on a diet of 7-win seasons and second-level bowl games for five of the past six seasons. During that time the football team had never been able to beat Georgia, seven times in a row the loser. This is searing on the mind of the West Stand populace. Oh, feast on a few big-time headline-fetchers. Beat Auburn, beat Clemson, beat Miami, pound Notre Dame now and then, but no steady diet of classic play. At one home game last season, attendance dipped below 20,000.
The call went out and Paul Johnson was reeled in. Johnson is an astonishing story. Never played a down of college football. Grew up in a small mountain town. Decided his life was football, and went to work building a proper foundation. A winner wherever he has coached; one season, winner of the Dodd Coach of the Year Award, now coaching in the shoes of the man himself. Calm, unpretentious, rarely ever raises his voice, in so many ways, the antithesis of the boom-voiced, boss kind of coach. Wherever he has held the reins, the offense has been the same, a spread option in which the quarterback handles the ball, but rarely passes it. We’re all waiting with passionate curiosity.
On this day, near the end of open practices some of the parents dropped in from delivering their offspring to have a look. “One magazine rated us 86th,” said a father from Baltimore. Not just an occasional patron, either. He buys season tickets and makes the scene for several home games. “I’ve seen Johnson’s teams at Navy, and I think there are good days ahead here,” he said.
Another father, who had played in Bill Curry’s seasons of depression, had dropped by to see his freshman safety at work. Tall, swift, impressively athletic, ol’ dad was rather tense about it all. The scene of a Johnson practice is impressively orderly, each segment like the moving part of a smoothly operating machine. Predictions don’t make a season, can’t dismay alums thirsting for a return to glory, and so it goes, that Georgia Tech looks to its future with calm and patient expectations.
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By jjacket
August 16, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Furman,
You are the best sports writer at any newspaper ever. I will always remember you for your coverage of my Jackets. Good luck in your retirement.
Great editorial, as usual. Younger jounalists could look back at your career and see how it should be done.
By techster
August 16, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Dear Mr. Bisher, I am one of the old ones. Long in the tooth (ones I have left, mostly plastic) When I went to the games. men wore hats, and the ladies were decked out in their sunday best. There were of course the “rats,” For those that are not in our time frame. They wore little caps. Looked like beanies. With the scores on the top. Losses, which were few in the mid fifties, were upside down. There was no tv coverage, and the games were on wgst am radio. No FM. On Sunday after church there was a sports program on tv, with several newspaper writers, and sometime Bobby Dodd would show up. This, of course was before internet and the mass of bloggers, Those unidentifed fans who are smarter than most of us. Who are like Batman, they have two identities. They only show us the side that they choose. I dont know if times were simpler, and people were kinder, I sort of doubt it. I do know that houses and cars were cheaper, and so were bosses that paid your wages. I would like to think that Georgia and Tech fans can rib each other, an old colloquialism, for kidding each other. In fun and hope the other team wins all of their games except oursl. Go Jackets and Go Dogs, of course in that order. As someone used to end their piece. Selah.
By Johnw
August 16, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Your columns are like reading poetry. You are the master of painting the scene and even making me feel like I was there. I was 35 years ago! Thanks for your wonderful reading for so many years.
By Al
August 16, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Furman, No game in Atlanta was below 40,000 in attendance. You must have been thinking of the Duke game in Durham.
By Me no like the Ghetto
August 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Mama’s don’t let your freshpersons grow up to be gangsta’s in the Ghetto.
By jjacket
August 16, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Ahhh, another BIGOT from UGA makes an appearance.
You stay classy UGA fans!
By charles
August 16, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
What game was attendance under 20,000? Only one game was under 50,000 and that was Samford at 43,288.
By Brewer for President
August 16, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
Well said Mr Bisher, well said.
By JS
August 16, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
Hope.
By Phd_to_be
August 17, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Another great writing lesson from Mr. Bisher. Don’t make ‘em like they used to, says I.
By medium nate
August 17, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
Furman,
my first memory of you was when i was about 8 years old. my dad handed me a cut out from the newspaper and told me to pick some teams. a couple weeks later, he gave me a bumper sticker that said ” I beat Bisher”. apparantly my picks beat yours. My now late dad was so proud that he took it to work before letting me stick it on my closet door. im now 35 and have enjoyed your presence for 27 years; even before I knew it. Thanks and go jackets!
By gjg
August 17, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
Boring….same story line over and over…
By KC Kid
August 17, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this
gjg,
It’s official. You’re an idiot.
By bearcasey
August 17, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
GIG: go play a video game. Mr. Bisher is the best writer there has ever been around these parts. He nailed the first day of school at GT even though mine was in 1967.
By Ramble On
August 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Looking forward to another season. I know we will have a few miscues along the way. But I think with a lot of hard work and little luck we can make it to the Humiliation Bowl again this year. Remember 2008 is the last year the ACC sends a mediocre team to Boise.
By m
August 17, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
THANK GOD AND GREYHOUND THAT CHAN GAILEY IS GONE FOREVER!! Hallleeedamlooyah@@
By son_sir
August 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Nice article Mr. Bisher. It’s refreshing to see you are among the faithful that still believe. I also can see you recognize that CPJ is someone who can bring a much needed kick in the a$$ to this program and put it back on top where it belongs.
I’d thank God, Greyhound, Greta Garbo, and The Great Gatsby, if ‘m’ would give it a rest and post a meaningful message.
By Fred G. Sanford
August 17, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
The “G” stands for Georgia, you big dummy!
Put me in the minority of UGA fans, if you will, but I think Coach Johnson will do a very good job with the GT program. Just be patient. I do believe UGA will extend the streak by winning one or two more before GT reaches the next level. But who knows? GT usually plays us tough and anything can happen. I’m looking forward to seeing how both programs go on from here.
By gjg is an imbecile
August 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Yet here you are again, gjg, reading the “same old story” and feeling compelled to respond to it. If this is boring, what does it say about you ? What a wearisome existence you must lead. Then again, I’d have thought you would be most comfortable in that type of setting. After all, your mundane life of shift work at Walmart and the never-ending “this is our year” mantra you subscribe to are epitomized by the word “tediousness”.
Enjoy your year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD9U0BJ2LFo
By BigMike
August 17, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Mr. Bisher,
Each Sunday I’d race down the fill from Columbia Dr. Baptist Church to be ready for the SEC sport show on television each week. I remember you, Jesse Outlar, Coach Mehre, Al Thomy and a very young Jim Minter. I must say that your vivid, poetic pieces bring your stories to life, in my opinion like Robert Penn Warren, Poet Laureate.
God Bless,
Mike Murphy
By Gary
August 17, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
I always enjoy your writing and have for over 40 years now. I enjoy your “I’M THANKFUL” columns on Thanksging more than any. Good Luck and may God continue to bless you and your family.
By fred
August 17, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
“Be blunt, be sincere and be seated”—-
THANK YOU FURMAN BISHER.
GT IM ‘59.
THWG!!!
By I-DOG
August 17, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Fred G.
I agree that tech should have some better days ahead… IF… they can recruit top 20 classes on a consistant basis.
Johnson is a good coach and his system will work (though this year I believe his squad will struggle mightily). The key will be getting the depth of talent and speed necessary to compete in the ACC, IF he can do that… he will be successful
Sweeting, Luallen, Drummond, and Lanier are building blocks for the future, but much more is needed to make things work.
By blackprix
August 17, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
I too believe!!!!
By OLD MAN
August 17, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
Furman, you’re the best sports writer the Atlanta paper(s) ever had!
Why can’t Terrence Moore let a little bit of your class rub off on him? I’m tired of reading all his negative trash (of course I understand that they’ve got to sell newspapers).
Thank you for all the wonderful coverage you’ve given us for as long as I can remember (and I’m 72).
May God continue to bless you!
Go Jackets!!!!!!!!!!!!
By George O'Leary
August 17, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Furman, you’re too old to be writing. Give it up. This drivel of yours has been repetitive since you first contracted alzheimers in ‘73.
By KC Kid
August 17, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
George O’Leary,
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re 12 or 13 years old. No adult would write something that hateful and mean spirited in a desperate attempt to be funny. You’re a sad human being, get some professional help for your problems, please.
By Me no like the Ghetto
August 17, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
George O’Leary and I just came back from a Whites Only Nambla meeting, on Peidmont Waffle House and if anyone wants a ride to GT games this year, just leave your names and e mail addresses, and we will ponder you over. Hee Haw and youngings forever.
By George O'Leary
August 17, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
KC Kid - Furman is too old to write coherent columns. He has been too old for the last four decades. He is a tech homer, and I hate tech. I hate tech because they enabled me to lie on my resume and ultimately get canned by Notre Dame before I even got started. Now I’m just a dumb Irish hick stuck in Central Florida.
By I-Dog
August 17, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
This is “Our Country”,..take the s** back., This is our country, Mandingos are all Whack…This is our country,., The power is all Right,..This is our country,..as long is its all White,…Thisis our country, Lets gits the games a started…This is our country,.. Fellas duck above, I just a Farted.
By TechCrybaby
August 17, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Mr. Bisher, as a sixth-generation Atlantan, I can say you have kept the faith (in Tech). It’s been hard - someone pointed out, the other day, that Tech is 12-32 against UGA since 1964. That’s when Dooley came, and Dodd was about ready to leave. Everything changed from that point, in a nip-and-tuck series in which UGA was behind by one game. You remember. Tough to take, 12-32, since then. I guess that’s why I sign myself “Crybaby.” But you have stayed in there loyally, hoping for better things. My hat is off to you, for that, as well as for your unequalled writing ability. Thanks.
By George
August 18, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
In 1969, after Tech broke a five game losing streak to UGA, you wrote something to the effect that Tech could look forward to living through another year rather than simply enduring it. While the drought may not end this year, it will end eventually. Thanks for decades of great articles.
By KC Kid
August 18, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this
George O’Leary,
Obviously you wouldn’t know a coherent column if it bit you in the a*. Do a little research on Mr. Bisher and you’ll see how many times he’s been Georgia Sportswriter of the year etc., etc. etc.
If you were as succesful in your Waffle House career as Bisher’s been in his writing career, you’d be managing your own store by now. Instead you’re still the greasy haired loser short order cook with raw egg on his hands, a cammo “G” hat with a fish hook on it, probably driving a Pinto and smoking Camel’s. I guess you do get your choice of those “Waffly House Babes” though, so that’s a good thing. Go Dawgs right?
By Glenn
August 18, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
Mr. Bisher, Thank you for all of your years of wonderful columns and insights. It’s a real shame many of these posters can’t appreciate your talents…Maybe it is time you deserve to take a well-deserved reprieve from many of these morons who would rather throw insults rather than enjoy real sports commentaries.
I think I can speak for many true sports fans, regardless of who they root for when I say congratulations on a wonderful career, thank you for all you have given us through the years, and happy retirement…Don’t be a stranger!!!
By dawgy
August 18, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
whoa there KC Kid, let’s try to limit it to two stereotypes at a time. While Coach O’Leary’s comments left a little to be desired, I’ll go out on a limb and say that your post was much more ridiculous. And bitter.
By SavTechIE
August 18, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
I fondly remember your Sunday TV football recaps in the early 50’s with Outlar and Mehre - - first hour with Bobby Dodd talking about what a great game his boys had played and then the next hour with Wally Butts defending how his men just weren’t giving all they were capable of. Wally’s greatest obstacle then was his inability to cuss his players out in Polish.
By KC Kid
August 18, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Dawgy,
I wouldn’t say his comments left “a little to be desired”. I’d say they left a lot to be desired and should have never been made.
But you may be right. I get a little fired up when someone criticizes Bisher, who is nationally recognized as one of the best sports writers of the past 50 years. And I fail to see any humor, as George O’Leary does, in bringing Alzheimer’s Disease up in an attempt to be funny. He must not know anyone who’s been affected by that disease, or he wouldn’t have done it. Anyway, I’m done. Back to sports.
By Stephen Smith
August 18, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Furman, that was a wonderful column. There are very few writers that could paint a picture as well as you can.
Tech will be better, it’s just going to take a while to clean up the mess left by the Gailey era.
By Keeping It Real
August 18, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
This is just another good ole boy article. I am glad Mr.Bigot(Bisher) is retiring. I have read his columns for years and they all seem to relish the good old days. The good old days were bad for many of us and trips down memory lane are not pleasant. I like Terrence Moore much better because he does not always write about issues that sound good to those living in the past.
By Lindsey Snot
August 18, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Wow, Real…you’re just the sort of clown that I’d believe read’s Mr. Fisher’s, er, ‘comments’.
But enough of that, the recruiting that is done by Tech will be reflective of the way the team’s needs, and I can promise you that there will be kids lined up to play for Coach Johnson. Maybe not the kind of kids that ugag looks for, but just as good if not better. You’ll see.
Like it or not Coah Johnson’s offense will work, and we’ll kick the mutt’s behinds at Bobby Dodd and at Shamford too, that’s a promise! Once the offense gets on a roll you won’t believe how much fun it’s going to be, and how fast it is.
Furman, it’s hard to believe that you’re going to be gone. All these years the words never failed you…but they’ve failed me. I don’t know what to say, so I’ll just say Vaya con dios, mi amigo! Hope your life is as good as it can be. Take good care.
By Mellow
August 18, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Georgia Tech: the school that needs Furman Bisher to make excuses for it.
By GTguy
August 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
this text will be bolded GATECH: the school you couldnt get into so you became a pup fan!!
By haha
August 18, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
I always have to laugh when I see this text will be bolded. A little confused?
But I do agree with what you said. Mellow is just in here trying to stir things up b/c he is a 17 yr old punk kid who knows nothing about football besides the past couple years. Typical bandwagon mutt.
By GTguy
August 18, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Bold: the school you couldnt get into so you became a pup fan!!
By dawgy
August 18, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Tech fans, like it or not, Georgia is every bit as hard to get into as Tech. I know several tech students who didn’t get into Georgia. It’s called supply and demand, more kids would rather go to the flagship university in beautiful Athens than the technical school in the dump that is midtown. Now, before you switch gears and start claiming that everyone takes calculus and aeronautical sciences, I want to direct you back to your original claim. Here’s a thought, actually have some factual base for the untruths you spew.
By gtforever
August 18, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Great Job Furman! To all these IDIOT UGAY fans, STICK IT UP YOUR ARSE! The clock is ticking…… GT football is about to recover!
Go Jackets!
By gtforever
August 18, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Great Job Furman! To all these IDIOT UGAY fans, STICK IT UP YOUR ARSE! The clock is ticking…… GT football is about to recover!
Go Jackets!
By brantley
August 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
umm, I hate to break it to you tech fans, but…the last six years weren’t exactly the worst in your history. In fact, they were your most consistent since Dodd. So stop acting like Gailey wrecked your program. On the contrary, he breathed consistency into the joke that is your football team. Get over yourselves.
By Mellow
August 18, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
“Tech Looks To The Future With Patience”
Translation: Tech is really going to suck bad this year and maybe next too.
So, Tech fans, get ready to bend over and grab your ankles.
By TDone
August 18, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
Mr.Bisher,
You had an error in your column. At no Tech home game last year was the attendance under 20,000. Here are the figures:
Samford 43,288
Boston College 51,112
Clemson 54,635
Army 50,242
Virginia Tech 52,202
North Carolina 45,490
Georgia 54,990
The game you may have in question is Duke, but that was at Durham last year.
By Wallace Butts
August 18, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
TDone: Wow, you really showed Furman. Those are huge numbers.
By Johnny Ringo
August 18, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
Bisher should’ve been fired back in 1961 when he claimed (most erroneously) that Coach Bryant and Coach Butts fixed a game. Both coaches got huge cash settlements out of it, but the tarnish wore off slowly. He’s lucky he had any career at all after that ridiculous slander job. What a hack.
By NELSON
August 18, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Furman Thanks for all of your great articles and books. You were right. Bryant and Butts did fix that game. Bryany got money simply because the Saturday Evening Post knew that no jury or judge would rule against Bryant in Alabama in the 60’s. Butts did not get a penny !! They both deserved to be fired . They were crooks. Butts left UGA and Bryant became a saint. Life is not fair.
By TDone
August 18, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
To Wallace B. Hines,
The facts are the facts.
No more and no less.
By Cecil34
August 19, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this
Furman, you remind me with your columns of when we were civilized. When there was law and order in Atlanta, and things were as they should be.
With your excellent musings, I can only think back on those days when Tech was golden, and there was a lot of optimism about where this country was headed.
Now, with thoughts of your impending retirement, the last bridge to civilization here will be no more.
I wish I could join you and ride off in the sunset with you.
By Jim W Harrison
August 19, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets should include an exhibition game with the Georgia State University Panthers in their beginning season in 2010 at the Georgia dome. GSU had its beginnings at Georgia Tech as a night school and has the adjacent student housing at olympic village. Now GSU challenges Ga Tech in comparable student enrollment. Maybe a good natured rivalry would be good for both football programs.
By Hardman
August 19, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
Furman, Thanks for being there and being such a gentleman always. You will always be a part of Tech memories.
By Michael Scharff
August 20, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Mr. Bisher, I hope that this is not your last column. It would be wonderful if you could PLEASE give us some sort of retrospective as to the world of sports through your eyes as your finale. Thank you for all your great work. I will miss your columns very much.
By The GTAA PR Department
August 20, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Mr. Bisher: we at georgia tech received your application for a position as a public relations specialist for the GTAA.
We are ready to hire you on as we realize that you have been essentially performing that function while employed at the AJC for the past 50 years.
We think it is time you made it official.
We can teach you the TECHnique of lying to save face at tech like we taught Dan Rad.
You have to admit his story that the Tech - Jacksonville State game was moved from Saturday the 30th to Thursday the 28th with no TV coverage to give Paul Johnson more time to prepare for Boston College was a whopper.
The general public knows that tech did not want to be embarrassed by the large crowd on the 30th at the Georgia Dome for the Alabama - Clemson game that would dwarf the small crowd that will show up for the first tech game.
I mean which game would you rather cover as a journalist for the AJC; tech - jacksonville state or Alabama - Clemson?
Well maybe I am asking the wrong guy that question considering your previous dating relationship with Bobbie Dodd.
Anyway, if you choose not to take our offer then you still retain the option of having the tech football player of your choice spend the night every Saturday night during football season.
Selah
By UGA'91
August 20, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Wow, all these compliments and platitudes for a columnist who consistently, spouts wrong information;20,000 fans? You Tech supporters should take that as an affront rather than singing the old coot’s praises. What about the column about Tech’s new uniform’s-has anybody else heard anything about Tech switching to green helmets? Either, A)he’s a liar, or B)his mind and reality aren’t in synch. Either way he should not be a columnist for a major newspaper. This level of factual inaccuracy wouldn’t be tolerated by one of the Neighbor newspapers but somehow he’s kept his job at the AJC all these years. It’s time for him to go and not a moment to soon.
By UGA'91
August 20, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Why is this man still writing?! I just read up on the Butts-Bryant scandal Johnny Ringo talked about. This man single handedly destroyed the Saturday Evening Post with his yellow journalism. Wally Butts was awarded over 3million dollars by a jury because of the old coots lies. I thought his mental faculties were slipping because of his age..turns out he’s just a man of low character.
By GT
August 20, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
How do you get excited after so many years? The players keep getting younger and younger. Even the coaches and their politically correct and can speeches get old. Wouldn’t it be great to have the entertaining Dodd back just one more season or the old drunk Bear and his bingo game? Cowboys in a saloon, playing poker with football players instead of playing card, closest thing real to the John Wayne stuff you see in the movies. I guess life is better at Athens with the 80,000 roaring bandwagon riders, but when this parity sets in and number one gets a bad toss of the dice with South Carolina or Kentucky it makes all that noises pretty silly. Those old Alabama or LSU teams that came in like money in the bank days are gone. When Tech wiped the Bear it was real drama not some time out for commercial football every three minutes. Not a game the press had to make with it spin but one they reported on because the action was there already. Furman I may retire with you, you are taking the best with ya and not leaving much behind.
By northwestgeorgiadawg
August 20, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this
i agree with fred g. sanford paul johnson deserves to have a patient tech alumnus base. maybe the will beat georgia with him as coach before social security funds run out!
By northwestgeorgiadawg
August 20, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
furman i like your comments tech fans are just mad because they have experienced a loss to a school in south carolina that bears your name furman university
By Ben Gilbert
August 23, 2008 5:47 AM | Link to this
Furman Bisher has been a nationaly recognized sports writer/columnist for as long as I can remember. His contributions will be sorely missed.
Good Luck, Mr. Bisher
By I Bleed White and Gold
August 24, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Retire? Is this a rumor or fact? I found no evidence when I googled ol’ Furman.
BTW, am I the only one who remembers Tech running the “belly series” under R E Lee Dodd???
By Ben Gilbert
September 12, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
I remember the “Belly Serris” which is the father of the Modern Option Football. I have Dodd’s ‘54 book which details the plays. I used it (the Belly seris) coaching recreational leaque football and good sucess with it.