AJC > Sandy Springs > Blog > Archives > 2008 > June > 02 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USIs “cleaning up” the neighborhood really bias?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Back when we were a new city there were a lot of folks wringing their hands about that part of town in the general vicinity of I-285 and Roswell Road, specifically to the south of that intersection.
As I recall the discussions, there was a lot of talk about the area needing to be “cleaned up” which is usually code words for tearing out older stores and apartments and replacing them with something fancier with rents that will discourage current residents from sticking around. And, setting aside the question of who should be making those decisions, I’m just curious as to whether it is still what we in the media like to call a “hot button” issue.
I drive through that section of town maybe once a month, as it really is not on my regular routine. I do not patronize the businesses there - an issue of convenience as opposed to any ill will about the place. It’s not the spiffiest neighborhood I have ever seen, but it far from the worst.
It does, I am told, get its fair share of attention from the police. Back when we became a city many alleged that area was a hot bed of drug trafficking and prostitution.
But is there also discomfort with the area because so many of the people living there are Hispanic? Is it possible that a portion of our desire to see that neighborhood cleaned up is because there are so many working-class folks to whom English is, at best, a second language?
Are we trying to ease out those who do not speak and look like us? (This is where the fussing usually surfaces about illegals in our town, but let us assume for the sake of this discussion that every foreign-born person living within our city limits is here legally.) Would that neighborhood still be an issue?
Wasn’t one of the things that made this country great was the fact that America is a melting pot? If so, what is it about an ethnic neighborhood in our confines that makes us so uneasy?
And is there a solution that does not have a subtle whiff of racism surrounding it?
Permalink | Comments (17) | Post your comment | Categories: Jim Osterman
Comments
By Amused
June 2, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
Congrats, Jim; you’ve just invited bigotry from the great citizens of Atlanta. More times than not, when a question like this is posed, the rednecks come out of the woodwork and spew about those “damn Mexicans” repeatedly.
First of all, it’s not a problem for me because I’m educated in the Spanish language. I think more Americans need to know a second language, or third even.
Secondly, the Hispanic population, legal or not, has a large bearing on our economy. I do think we need border control, but for the ones that are already here, let’s give them some respect. And just think what would happen if we kicked them all out, all of the sudden? Chaos.
Third, and most importantly, they are NOT all Mexicans. Some are Honduran. Some are Guatemalan. We need to be careful about our over-generalizations. You, Mr. Irish, would not want to be called Polish just because you are from northern Europe and look like a northern Eurpoean. Heritage is important to everyone. That includes latinos/as.
By billy
June 2, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
the problem is this area is not a melting pot(an environment in which many ideas and races are socially assimilated) but a mini-mexico
By Legal
June 2, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Let’s assume every person is here legally? Hmmm. OK, let’s also assume the sky is green and the grass is blue. Immigrants are great. Illegal immigrants have to go!
By WHY
June 2, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Look at all the non-English speaking kids at High Point Elementary School that slow down the curriculum for for the English speaking kids. Should we assume they are here legally too?
By Chris
June 2, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
God forbid Americans learn another language!!!! No wonder our children suffer in our schools.
Does the area need to be cleaned up? Yes it does. However; tearing down old stores and cramming the place with new shiny condos (that will add to the already horrible traffic in that area) is not the answer.
I hate to say it but the High and Mighty residents of Sandy Springs may have to actually reach out to these people and do something to better their community as a whole rather than pushing out the people who don’t make $500,000+ a year. If all you can do is complain about the not so nice areas of your city and not come up with any compromising solutions then just stay in your gated communities and secede from that area of Sandy Springs. I can see it now….SANDY SPRINGS II
By Pat Hagan
June 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
“But is there also discomfort with the area because so many of the people living there are Hispanic?”
Not for me. I’m American of Irish heritage and I grew up in a community that had a large Hispanic community in south Texas. No problem. My sister is married to a Hispanic. No problem.
You said that this area of Sandy Springs gets “…its fair share of attention from the police. Back when we became a city many alleged that area was a hot bed of drug trafficking and prostitution.”
This is the source of my discomfort. And I would have this discomfort even if the residents were all Irish, or if every one of them was a member of my family.
I suspect that the vast majority of the current residents, whether here legally or illegally, have discomfort with drug and other illegal activity in their neighborhood because most of the crime committed by residents of this area are against their fellow neighbors living in the area. Let’s help them get rid of the crime and improve their quality of life.
For me race has NOTHING to do with it.
By Pat Hagan
June 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
“But is there also discomfort with the area because so many of the people living there are Hispanic?”
Not for me. I’m American of Irish heritage and I grew up in a community that had a large Hispanic community in south Texas. No problem. My sister is married to a Hispanic. No problem.
You said that this area of Sandy Springs gets “…its fair share of attention from the police. Back when we became a city many alleged that area was a hot bed of drug trafficking and prostitution.”
This is the source of my discomfort. And I would have this discomfort even if the residents were all Irish, or if every one of them was a member of my family.
I suspect that the vast majority of the current residents, whether here legally or illegally, have discomfort with drug and other illegal activity in their neighborhood because most of the crime committed by residents of this area are against their fellow neighbors living in the area. Let’s help them get rid of the crime and improve their quality of life.
For me race has NOTHING to do with it.
By Pompano
June 4, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
“but let us assume for the sake of this discussion that every foreign-born person living within our city limits is here legally.”
Jim - do you aspire to write fairy tales?
If I go to Vegas & play craps, the mathematical odds are that a 7 will be thrown the most of all numbers. If I throw a rock and hit a Mexican while driving down Buford Hwy, the mathematical odds are that they are here illegally.
By Matthew
June 4, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
For some, I’m sure it is pure bias. For others, it probably isn’t at all. For most, it may be a combination.
Neighborhoods where racial minorities are the majority are disproportionately low income and high crime areas. Not always the case, but the correlations exist.
So for some, they may simply object to a large number of minorities living nearby. Others may simply dislike the high crime itself or the shabby appearance of the area. Most probably see the correlation and just want the area improved, period.
Is this bias? Sure. Is it prejudice or racism? That seems dubious.
By Tom
June 5, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
The real concern is….are they selling sex toys? No? That’s just in “Northern” Sandy Springs? Whew…..good.
For English, please press 1. For any other language, hang up, go learn English, call back and press 1.
*
By LB
June 6, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Jim, I grew up in Sandy Springs and that area has been bad since the 1970’s when everyone knew that’s where the druggie parties were held. Remember the Ski Chalet apartment murders? So now the dense apartments have become filled with illegal immigrants and little boys are being hit in the head with axes. Maybe the move to “clean it up” would have happened before Sandy Springs became a city, but no one with any investment in the community had any power with Fulton County. So just maybe, those calling for the clean up ARE NOT racist, but just think this is an area that has gone too long without some attention. The class warfare snottiness in the blog entries is as offensive to me as any racist comment. The people of Sandy Springs have a right to clean up, re-develop or whatever they want to call it. And the residents of those apartments who stood by as a boy was axed a couple summers ago and wouldn’t cooperate with police will just have to live with the consequences.
By Patricia
June 8, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
Whether the incorporation of Sandy Springs was based on a “clean up” is an interesting question in light of the increasing crime rates. The current rate of hit and runs in Sandy Springs is 80+ with many of them very serious accidents - and the worst part - they only have 1 investigator - the word is out, Sandy Springs is understaffed to don’t worry about getting caught.
By Tom Osterman (yep)
June 9, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
A couple of thoughts:
First, this notion that “Americans need to learn more than one language” is asinine on its face. Very few people learn a second language except by necessity. And while we’re on the subject, the public schools have had foreign language departments, at least at the high school level, for decades, yet they might as well have spent the money on the athletic departments for all the good they’ve done. Not to mention all the colleges and universities that have a foreign language requirement for a Bachelor’s degree.
Second, if the area south of the perimeter is thought to be a bad neighborhood, shouldn’t this be checkable by referring to police reports and crime statistics? It’s easy to assume bigotry or anything else unless SOMEONE gets some facts.
Just a couple of thoughts.
By SS
June 12, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
This has been a very big issue among Sandy Springs residents for a while now. When we first became a city that was one of the first things I heard residents wishing for. Then they especially began assuming this when the shopping center project started. So what is going to happen? Someone knows. Just like someone knew what they wanted when they placed the new elementary school where they did. They knew it would take a 100% of that area and almost all of Sandy Spring’s low socioeconomic children and segregate the elementary schools. There is a master plan I am certain of it, we just don’t know about it. I just feel so badly for the residents of that area who love the Sandy Springs area they live in. Let’s remember many of the people who live in that area are not in apartments, they live in condos they purchased and they are currently listed for $85,000-$95,000…and they obviously won’t be able to afford the $600,000 ones that could be put in their place. Since the city isn’t sure if they can bulldoze their homes anymore for a tunnel…I don’t know what they will do. For those that do live in apartments I guess the city feels it is OK with not telling them what is really going on. Certainly they feel that if the time comes a 30 day notice will suffice.
By scottbravesfan
June 20, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
So now Americans should learn another language to baby the Mexican immigrants? Get a grip. I”m liberal but people like you make liberals look like idiots. English is the national language people need to go to book stores and buy a basic English book. You don’t need to be fluent but at least learn some basic sayings.
By Sue
July 8, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
I have lived in various apartments around Sandy Springs neighborhoods for almost 25 years. While I loved living in close to all kinds of wonderful fun things, I moved to North Sandy Springs when the folks who didn’t speak English became more visible in the community.
I noticed that they started tearing out the screens on our beautiful porches, throwing trash in the streets and lawns of the complex, flicking lit cigarette butts in the dry pinestraw — “How would you like a little fire, Scarecrow?” Then there were the junked vans and multitude of vehicles taking up limited parking space because of the HOR-factor (high occupancy residence) not to mention the misguided knocks on the door at all hours of the night for people who could not find the correct drug house. And I almost forgot about the cockroach infestation — now that was special.
The final straw for me was the drug-related murders in the building adjacent to mine and across Roswell Road from my complex. I’d had enough torture and had to go. I loved seeing the little children outside playing and making up games and having fun. That’s what kids should do. But destruction of my home and my property — no!
I do not for the life of me understand why these people who do not speak our language want to trash our country. I think of the old Indian Chief with the tear in his eye whenever I see the trash that has been discarded anywhere these folks see fit — and it is not in a waste receptacle, for certain. I’m not a redneck and actually considered “liberal” by most of my friends. But I am proud of where I live and if I make every effort to keep it pretty, then the people who want to “melt into our pot” need to take pride in something besides the country from which they fled. “Wherever you go, there you are!”
By Stuart Ranald
August 1, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
Wasn’t one of the things that made this country great was the fact that America is a melting pot?
Do you not understand why it is hilarious to ask about a ghetto with no assimilation, a language barrier and the attendant high crime and then mention America as a melting pot? I can assure you that if Minnesota spoke Norwegian and Swedish, it would not be doing nearly as well financially, and if Pennsylvania was still all speaking German there would be enormous difficulties. Those who are here legally need to mix and provide strength to existing communities. Those who are here illegally need to leave. If both of those things happened, the issue would return to being classist and no one would discuss race. The fact that poor apartment dwellers have high crime, low parental involvement in schools, low test scores which bring down school scores and property value, all have NOTHING to do with race. Every statement in the prior sentence is true of apartments of poor whites as well.