Around Sandy Springs

By Jeff

January 14, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Sooner or later we will become like a Chicago, or NYC, where its sooo crowded to drive we’ll be forced to take mass transit. I work 20 minutes from home and would gladly take Marta, yet, it would take me 1.5 hours each way, 3 transfers, and walk a mile on the side of Fulton Industrial. No Thanks!

By ss

January 14, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

That location would be perfect for a tunnel - straight to Mexico - ONE WAY

By JP

January 14, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Thanks for saying it, Jim—Atlanta has resisted planning (Republican dominated “free market” obsession) for years, and we’re suffering for it now. This is what the “free market” creates: an overgrown cancerous megalopolis which has no boundaries and steadfastly refuses to locate anything next to anything else.

And we wonder why there’s traffic.

By David

January 14, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

(Republican dominated “free market” obsession) for years

WHAAAAATTTTT!

Atlanta and state government has just come under republican control. We are now just starting to address the decades of inaction by democrats. JP do you honestly believe the city planning issues came about in the last 5 years?

By PM

January 14, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

I need to hear details about how a tunnel will improve traffic. I can only imagine that it is simply creating more lanes to move cars. It may improve for a while but we will keep building condo’s and cramming a 1000 people (with cars) in a 5 acre site.

Roswell Road in SS is a nightmare sometimes. Seems like all the traffic lights and turns cause traffic to move too slowly. Also the bridge to/from 285 needs to be reworked. Longer green lights north/south, close a couple of roads and put in a monorail for all the pedestrians. A tunnel sounds terribly expensive and would not be as beneficial.

By David

January 14, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

And I correct myself that Atlanta is not and has not been under republicans for …. EVER.

By MJ

January 14, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

The problem with MARTA is that it’s inefficiently run, full of political patronage (instead of management that ACTUALLY knows public transit), and doesn’t go where needed. If I could ride the train to Alpharetta I would. No way I’m walking 1 mile to the station to take at train, change trains, and the ride a bus for 30 minutes. That’s about 1.5 hours to work - assuming I don’t miss the bus.

By Bud

January 14, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

How about getting the timing of the stop lights around Atlanta corrected. I saw a story on TV about traffic around the nation and how big cities adjust their lights every couple years. Atlanta hasn’t done it in over 10 years. Cobb started a program last year to monitor traffic at each light to make it more efficient at high traffic times. Why isn’t the city of Atlanta doing this? I do take MARTA. I can understand why some don’t though. It is very inconvenient to get to in some places. I like riding the train because I hate sitting in traffic. The only drawback is I have to get up extra early and sometimes I wake up at the airport…my stop is in Buckhead.

By Joeventures

January 14, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Bud: Traffic light timing doesn’t make much of a difference, and it’s extremely expensive. The biggest problem with the timing issue is that you can’t add seconds to a minute. I used to live in Cobb County when this new system went online — and just getting out of my subdivision became a bigger hassle.

MJ and Jeff: MARTA can’t just pick itself up and move its stations around. I’d be willing to bet you made your decisions to live and work long after MARTA’s current stations were built. Perhaps if you took your commute into consideration before you moved or took your job, you wouldn’t find yourself in traffic hell.

Jim: Nice post. There’s one other detail you’re forgetting about. Tunnels also require ventilation systems. The more pollution there is in a tunnel, the bigger the ventilation system that’s needed. In Boston, they had to build seven ventilation buildings for eight miles of tunnels. here is a shot of one of them, and a shot of the same building from the ground.

How would you like a few of those in Sandy Springs?

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 14, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Wouldn’t a bridge be cheaper? Also, isn’t a bridge easier to widen down the road than a tunnel?

Hey Gdot-build a north-south toll road around ATL to siphon off the to/from I-75 Florida traffic so they do not comingle with the local Atlanta traffic. The thru trucks, cars and RV’s this would pull off I-75 would be substantial. Have it branch off 75 well north and south of Atlanta. Only have two interchanges, one at I-20 and one at I-85.

By peaches

January 14, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

The folks that think there is a solution to traffic that does not involve cars are smokin the evil weed. Atlanta is too racially polaraized for mass transit to work and too scattered out. Getting downtown is no longer our great need…it’s moving east to west across the northern suburbs.
In any conversation about handling the traffic woes of Atlanta, the idea of Bikes come up, you can know that the author is not a serious person, looking for real solutions.
I am saving a file of politicians who are refusing to build the infrastructure we need preferring silliness like bike paths and when real gridlock comes upon us, there will be an accounting for their inaction.

By J

January 14, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Since AJC doesn’t think this is newsworthy, then I will help spread the word. Hillary Clinton said that all women are not illegal, ie, any female illegal immigrant is not illegal, and can stay here. Apparently she was campaigning in Las Vegas where there are many illegals. Think real hard before you vote please.

By NICK

January 14, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Traffic will always SUCK in Atlanta, because the black run city government did not prepare (gee, imagine that) for all the folks they were trying to “court” to move here.

The “quickest fix” to this problem would be to enforce our current laws.

Round up all the “ILLEGAL ALIENS” and dispose of them and all their vehicles.

I promise there will be at least a 10% reduction in congestion throughout the city.

Next, stop builders from tearing down ever tree they can in order to build more apartment complexes and subdivisions.

By JP

January 14, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

It’s a mindset, not a party. Democrats in Georgia are the Zell Miller variety — i.e. DINO. That’s the only Democrats who can get elected here outside of John Lewis’ district.

The mindset is no urban planning, no transit, independent suburban entities, objection to population density. WHat else do you think comes out of that??

And before you respond, I’m taking into account that the local L5P area stopped two major interstates in the 70s and 80s—those should clearly be built as the capacity is beyond needed.

However, as others have said, highways and capacity are not an end-all. There would be more around those interstates were they to exist, so the “Excess” capacity would quickly be used up.

The real root cause is Metro Atlantans’ desire to a half-acre or acre each to themselves; large cities cannot accomodate that without becoming as disparate and spread out as Atlanta. It’s a recipe—and you only need to travel to a couple of dense, walkable, competently planned cities to see it.

But we don’t plan here, because people want their “freedom” to be stuck in absurdly horrid traffic.

By jeed

January 14, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Bless Nick’s heart.

By nono

January 14, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

HERE’s a thought—and one that won’t cost a dime to the taxpayers and will make an IMMEDIATE difference in traffic on major interstates in metro Atlanta.

DO NOT allow any semi trucks on Atlanta’s interstates during morning and afternoon rush hours. I can’t tell you how many times I get on I20 in the morning and it’s not clogged with commuters—it’s clogged with huge trucks lumbering along slowing everyone down—God help you if you’ve got 3 lanes in front of you with 6 semis spread out between them trying to go uphill. These trucks should not be allowed on any Atlanta interstates between 7-9 am and 4:30-6:30 pm. Immediate return on investment for the taxpayers and an immediate improvement to traffic. Problem solved!

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 14, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Yeah nono, ban the rigs from the interstates during rush hour and put them on the surface streets where they belong. That’ll help traffic flow better.

Build car HOT lanes and truck only toll lanes and separate the rigs from general traffic. Make RV’s use the truck toll lanes too.

By ATLNative

January 14, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

I wish I had a dollar for every article, blog, and editorial on Atlanta traffic. Look, this city has ALWAYS had bad traffic. Yes, it wasn’t designed particularly well, but how many other cities do you know that were built along a ridgeline? If you knew the actual topography of Atlanta, you would understand that a giant “gid-like” system of streets won’t work for blocks and blocks like NYC, Chicago, and DC - cities built on nice flat coastlines.

Atlantans like their lawns, their houses, and their neighborhoods. The ones that remain in town are increasing exponentially in value and few developers are going to have the capital or any other bargaining chip to change that. If people hadn’t fled to the burbs in the 70’s, 80’s & 90’s - we wouldn’t have this issue. So, you can either live where you work or sit in traffic - or you can leave.

By Scott

January 14, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

“the black run city government did not prepare” Nick, over thirty years ago the City of Atlanta, Dekalb County and Fulton County (heavily populated black jurisdictions)signed on to MARTA while the other metro counties balked. Today the city of Atlanta is weighing the viability of a street car on Peachtree. The loop that will connect neighborhoods with transit and parks is nascent. Nick, what did say about black leadership in Atlanta? Remember, Mayor Franklin is the mayor of the City of Atlanta. She is not a regional mayor.

By Sandynista

January 14, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Dedicated right-turn lanes onto and off of Roswell Road would also help to relieve congestion better than a tunnel.

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 14, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

If y’all do decide to dig a tunnel, I understand Boston just finished their’s and could perhaps assist you with yours. They only went about four-fold over budget and only parts of it have collasped so far.

Sandy Springs, champagne taste on a beer budget.

By a

January 14, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Ideas for Atlanta:

Connect I-675 and GA 400 to create another north-south route east of downtown to relieve pressure on the connector.

Extend Lakewood freeway east of I-75 to meet up with above I-675/GA400 route.

Build outer perimeter to relieve pressure on I-285.

Get Gwinnett, Cobb and Clayton on board MARTA and extend Doraville line out I-85. Build line up I-75 to Kennesaw. Extend east-west line further out in both directions. Extend airport line down I-75. Extend GA400 line up thru Alpharetta.

Build people mover systems in high density areas to keep people out of cars for short trips.

Study back-ups at interesctions and make necessary adjustments, such as dual turning lanes, flyover ramps, better timing of traffic lights, longer turn lanes. etc.

Fund with increased gasoline taxes, tolls, federal funding, HOT lanes. Have developers fund street improvements near their new projects. Legalize gambling and use proceeds to fund.

By MAD

January 14, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

ATLNative, congratulations on being one of the few people to notice that the topography of this area has had a huge impact on how the Atlanta area was able to develop. The hills spread out development by limiting viable parcels to develop, and quite frankly nobody is willing to walk or ride their bikes up and down them to get anywhere.

By Bob

January 14, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

I live less than 10 miles from work, drive a fuel efficient car, and I carpool. I work from home a couple of times a month to further reduce my gasoline expenditures. I’d ride a bike to work if there were a safe route.

My wife drives more than I do. She’s on the Smart Car waiting list.

Our oldest two children have cars but they are in their 20’s and live in another state! Our next oldest will be 16 in 3 weeks. He doesn’t intend to get his license until he completes his Eagle Scout requirements. At that point we’ll let him borrow one of our cars on a very limited basis. He’ll pay for his own car like his older siblings did. The youngest two will be treated in the same manner. If they need their own car they can pay for it.

If they choose to live at home while attending college we will provide them with an automobile since we do not live very close to Marta. Our daughter prefers to pay for her own car. We pay for her insurance but that’s all the support she requires. She has an academic scholarship and she has a part time job that takes care of her other spending needs.

Too many parents coddle their children and we’ve seen the results. My wife and I have both been involved in scouts and youth sports for years. It is amazing how some kids treat their parents.

By James

January 14, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

No pity goes to those living around the northern arc who arrogantly voted against mass transit. They had the dumb idea that mass transit would bring in too many black and brown people. NOw they’re sitting in traffic everyday with those same black and brown people. Their ignorance caused them to turn down billions of dollars in federal matching funds for mass transit. Too bad the money is not there anymore. If they would have taken it, the money would have given Cobb, Douglasville, and Gwinnett citizens an easy 15-20 minute train ride into Atlanta. Sadly, the’conservative demoncrats’ and republicans who have the majority in those areas voted against it. My guess is that they will continue to drag this state down with their prejudices and ignorance. All of the things that made Atlanta the economic powerhouse that it is today came from so called liberal democrats. Yes Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, and the Airport are all products of the planning of “liberal democrats”. Check out Birmingham and Columbia - they’re still ruled by conservatives and have experienced much slower growth than Atlanta.

By Jim

January 14, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Nothing wrong with tunnels. They are used in Europe to great success. They are perfect for the through traffic. Only thing that would mess it up are the dumb users.

As far as banning trucks during rush hour - stupid. Trucks are businesses, warehouses, and jobs on wheels. Talk about added cost to everyone - just delay the transport of goods and services. If car drivers would obey a few simple rules of the road then truck drivers could have a much safer driving experience in Atlanta.

Momo rails and buses - yeah, where do you live and when do you want to get to work or home… I don’t think any of you people who express mass transit as a savior of the planet have ever used it. It stinks, it’s slow, it’s undependable, it doesn’t serve most areas were workers in SS live.

By JIm

January 14, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Again, obviously you haven’t been to Birmingham recently to see who rules the city.

Just raised the sales tax to 10 percent and can’t figure out why businesses, jobs, and people are leaving the city. Nothing about race - stupidity in government is a norm supported by stupidity in voters. People stop thinking that race is the answer to all the problems of city planning and government. The answer to all these problems are the citizens (and the few people who bother to vote).

Hoover and other cities in AL outside of B’ham city limits are growing. Can’t reply on Columbia.

The empty school buses speak to the empty headed parents who allow it and those parents who allow their kids to be trouble makers on the buses - thus causing parents to allow their kids to have cars.

By Marta not functional

January 14, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Marta just doesn’t work. The Atlanta metro area doesn’t have the density to make it practical.

I live within 1/4 mile of the Doraville station but I still have to walk TWENTY FIVE MINUTES to get there because of the lack of a direct walkway across 285. Also, within the past two years the Doraville city council allowed 2 suburban-style shopping centers to be built, when areas within 2 square miles of Marta should always, always be redeveloped with high-density and/or mixed use in mind.

Also, consider the North Springs Marta station. How many North Fulton white collar workers do you ever see walking to their neighborhood station there? ZERO.

Every study I’ve seen shows that less than 2% of daily workers actually use Marta (or Marta buses) and these are primarily people who cannot afford cars and have no other choice. They would drive if they could.

In NYC, something like 50% of workers use the subway, but the density of NYC is about 5-7 times the average density of Atlanta.

By JP

January 14, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

ATLNative, you have a good point about the topography, but the end result still sucks. I’m considering leaving, for that among many other reasons. You stay here and enjoy your giant lawn, and enjoy not being able to walk anywhere from anywhere else.

By Maya

January 15, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Well, in this thread, we’ve blamed the Republicans and free-market capitalists for urban-sprawl and the traffic problems it’s created in Metro Atlanta. I’ll through out my candidate for blame-fest 2008 - white-flight and poor suburban planning is the reason we have sprawl. Now there. I’ll bet I helped solve the problem with casting another stone?

By sp

January 15, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this

There is nothing to blame traffic on! On the contrary, I believe that Atlanta residents ought to rejoice when they see the volume of traffic. Let me explain why: the voters choose candidates who best reflect their wants at local state, and federal levels. Many of the voters have gotten exactly what they want: homes in the suburbs at affordable prices, and good paying jobs, sometimes a good ways away from where we live. Traffic is simply a byproduct of legislation passed (or simply lack of legislation) to enable the above wants. So why complain? Atlanta-area residents ought to sit in their cars and thank God for being able to have achieved the lifestyle they have. Heavy car traffic is just a sign of great wealth of the people of Atlanta. People are so well off that they can afford to drive an SUV 25 miles each way alone to work and back. How many people in other countries can afford to do that year after year? Most poor slobs around the world have to put up with mass transit.

Instead of complaining, Atlanta residents ought to brag to the rest of the world about their traffic problem because in this case it is a sure sign of wealth and local democracy at work!

By rv

January 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

JP, MAD, ATLNative, I have doubts about the validity of your point about topography influencing our lack of street grid. Case in point: San Fransisco and Los Angeles, two entirely dissimilar cities.

I’ll also point out that those ridgelines you’ve mentioned as a hindrance to our formation of a gridded street system are in the middle of the gridded parts of the city.

People and policy spread out developments, not hills. Like most other infrastructure issues in this region, the lack of a street grid is a combination of a lack of sensible planning, foresight, political will, and populace that refuses to pay to enhance its quality-of-life.

By Tommy Who

January 15, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Do you want a traffic solution that works? Try this. Convert the interstates and GA 400 inside the perimeter to toll roads with a graduated toll schedule. $4 for 1 passenger; $1 for 2 passengers; $0.25 for three passengers; four or more passengers are free. Use the revenue generated to epand MARTA rail service.

By JCH

January 15, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

I’ve lived in Atlanta and north Atlanta all my life. I’ve seen WAY TOO much growth. I’m sick of the unchecked, poorly planned development and expansion in the region. There’s too much traffic because they’re too many people. They’re too many people because of the wild and rampant development which has taken place for years and years which has attracted too many people from NY, OH, MI, IL, PA, NJ and I’m sorry if I missed anyone’s state. I sincerely hope that the know it alls who complain about the large yards and the traffic will leave. Goodbye JP and others. With water shortages, traffic, high gas prices, and a bad housing market, I can only pray that the powers to be will put the brakes on growth and legislate changes to curb future growth for years to come. Here in Roswell/Alpharetta we have said no to many growth/expansion proposals. But then look at Gwinnett County. They’re insanely going full force in the opposite direction. When will it end?

By jcr

January 15, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

JCH…The powers that be will only put the brakes on if concerned citizens, like you, speak up and get involved. BTW, over the years, it is that group of powers that be that wooed all these people & businesses from other places, created development & the subsequent unplanned mess. In turn, that means you, as you are the one who has been casting the vote. Give yourself a pat on the back. Most transplants are not from the north, but other areas in the south, fyi.

By JT

January 16, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

I agree a big waste of money. The funding would be better spent on bike lanes and tolls on the Johnson Ferry Bridge.

By S Smith

January 17, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

I agree that the current traffic problem should be addressed. I just think they need to consider further study and review before spending such a great amount of money. I am not convinced this is really going to solve the problem; it may only perpetuate an existing problem. This in combination with other redevelopment plans for our city(ie. The Prado, the new school, Abernathy widening) has me really hoping that people know what they are getting into.

By S Smith

January 17, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

I agree that the current traffic problem should be addressed. I just think they need to consider further study and review before spending such a great amount of money. I am not convinced this is really going to solve the problem; it may only perpetuate an existing problem. This in combination with other redevelopment plans for our city(ie. The Prado, the new school, Abernathy widening) has me really hoping that people know what they are getting into.

By S Smith

January 17, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

I agree that the current traffic problem should be addressed. I just think they need to consider further study and review before spending such a great amount of money. I am not convinced this is really going to solve the problem; it may only perpetuate an existing problem. This in combination with other redevelopment plans for our city(ie. The Prado, the new school, Abernathy widening) has me really hoping that people know what they are getting into.

By DRH

January 18, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

The problem is the roads Jim. I hate to tell you but Georgia’s (not in my backyard and obession with leftist environmentalists) attitude has contributed to these problems. People didn’t want MARTA in their neighborhoods because it would brought in “them coloreds” to our lily white suburbs. You all didn’t want interstates because you didn’t want it to cut through your neighborhood or in your backyard. This state has politicians who are more concerned with getting elected rather than taking a much needed stance. We need to grid these roads and let these roads take us somewhere. Right now all of these roads merge into each other. We need to have some serious zoning. We start out with limited access highways but we end up throwing shopping centers and subdivisions on the properties. Once this state gets serious about planning, zoning and learn the value of grided roads, then we make make some real progress. But as long as we have this holier than thou attitude, we will continue to be stuck on roads with non sychronized lights.