Home > Terence Moore > Archives > 2008 > May > 22 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USComparing Chipper to Mantle not a stretch
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
This is a sacrilege, but so be it. If you ignore Mickey Mantle’s 536 home runs and magical name for the ages, Chipper Jones is just a few seasons shy of ranking as the greatest switch-hitter ever. He’ll surpass Eddie Murray, whose 504 homers were aided by longevity and the DH. More significant, he’ll surpass Mantle, idolized by Jones, even though the Braves slugger was born four years after the Mick’s last game in pinstripes.
You may stop gasping now, because it’s true. If you prefer not to believe me, then how about Bobby Cox?
As Braves manager, Cox has seen every one of Jones’ 2,031 games. “He’s in the Hall of Fame, even if he stops playing right now,” said Cox on Thursday night at Turner Field, where Jones continued to swing beyond even his typically lofty standards. But back to Cox, among Mantle’s former teammates with those New York Yankees of yore, which means the following is rather huge. Said Cox, when asked about Jones likely becoming better overall at the plate than Mantle, than Murray, than any switch-hitter in professional baseball’s 139 years, “I think you could say that, yeah. I really do. You could say that he’s headed that way. Absolutely.”
The New York Mets would agree, especially after Jones did much to sweep them out of town in four games. During the Braves’ 4-2 victory in this one, Jones stayed around Ted Williams territory (.400) after going 2-for-4 to raise his outrageously high bar for everybody else in the major leagues to.412. He displayed his ability to use his brain as well as his brawn in the seventh inning against the esteemed Johan Santana. With the score tied at 2-2 and runners at the corners, Jones calmly poked an outside pitch from the Mets’ left-handed ace into shallow right field to score the eventual winning run.
It was the stuff of Mantle, a master in the clutch, and Cox should know. “Switch-hitters with power, and both of them could be laid-back at times, and both of them could have fun, and both of them could have that focus,” Cox said. “Nobody’s more focused than Chipper during a ballgame. I mean, he has total concentration. Mickey was the same way. Chipper doesn’t say a lot on the bench, because he’s watching everything that’s going on.”
So much for the comparisons. Now to the contrasts. Mantle and Murray are the only switch-hitters with more home runs than Jones’ 398, but neither Mantle nor Murray finished with a career batting average over .300, where Jones has resided forever during his 15 seasons. Murray had those 573 at-bats as a DH to Jones’ 71, which means Jones has had to overcome more than Murray ever did by concentrating on fielding and hitting instead of just hitting. Plus, Jones has nine seasons of 100 RBIs or more and counting, while Murray had six and Mantle had four.
We won’t even mention that Mantle often swung in a who’s who lineup, ranging from Joe DiMaggio to Yogi Berra to Roger Maris. In contrast, Jones mostly has been in batting orders for the Braves with good hitters instead of great ones.
Such talk makes Jones force a smile after cringing. That’s because he has so much respect for his retired elders, already sitting in Cooperstown. “With Eddie, you always think about longevity, you think about runs produced, RBIs, runs scored and setting the bar so high,” Jones said. “With Mantle, you think about mammoth home runs, 500-plus homers, a career cut short because of injuries. I wanted to be the all-around guy that hits for average, high on-base percentage. Hit the home runs. Drove in the runs. If I have four or five more years with the same type of numbers, you might be able to put me in the same breath as those other guys. But it’s way too early to say I’m with the best of all time.”
Actually, it isn’t.
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By bobby
May 23, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
Maybe not the awesome power of Mantle or the speed, but nonetheless one of the greatest players of all time.
By Patrick
May 23, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Wow, I’m just hoping Texeira and Francoer heat up to give Chipper some more help in the lineup.
Great article Terence,
By Gene
May 23, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
I saw Mantle play a few times, and I mainly agree with Terrence on this one. There is no doubt that Chipper is the best hitter in baseball right now. Mantle had more pure power than Chipper, in spite of being significantly smaller or at least shorter at 5’11”. Chipper has a few more good years, and could reach 500 homeruns if he stays healthy. I would sure like to see Chipper with another WS ring before he quits.
By ChrisfromSacramento
May 23, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Chipper may not say it, but he is the best. ALL TIME!!
By aefwb
May 23, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Can we thank our lucky stars that Todd Van Poppel said he didn’t want to play for the Braves? If not for that…..
By J-Bo
May 23, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
Right on Terrence. Chipper still has a good 3-5 years in him barring any serious injuries. Even if he has an average year in each of his remaining years, he will go down as the best switch-hitter of all time. I’m also very biased. All the GREAT Yankee hitters played in a park with a 330 ft left field where it was easy to hit an HR batting as a left hander and Mickey faced right-handed pitching a majority of the time.
By prattvillenolzfan
May 23, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Great article Terence…
You hit it on the head Terence. The thing that makes Chipper so good is the fact that he is so focused. I’ve always said that the younger generation of Braves needs to emulate Chipper’s approach. He is constantly observing and making adjustments.
While Franceour is the media darling of the Braves, McCann is the one who is quietly becoming the leader of the “New Generation” of the Braves. You see him constantly sitting by Chipper, picking his brain…While you often see Franceour sitting between Smoltz and Glavine laughing and joking around.
By Drixie
May 23, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Great article Terrence! In addition to all the good points made, Chipper seems to have greatly matured as well. He has very much become a leader on the Braves. Hopefully we’ll have Chipper for many more years as a player before turning him over to the Hall of Fame!
By Joe Don Barker
May 23, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Johan made the mistake of trying to brush Huddy back while bunting. After Hudson got fired up and laid down the bunt, Mr. $20 million came unraveled. Simply put, we STILL own the Mets.
Now on to Chipper, where are the legions of David Wright fans that usually stink up these blogs? That goober can’t be mentioned in the same breath as Chipper - not for a long time. Way to go Chip - let’s see 400 this weekend!
GO BRAVES!
By Scott, Montgomery, AL
May 23, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
Chipper is, without question, the best hitter I’ve ever seen. I’m 40 and have followed the Braves and MLB religiously for over 30 years. I put him in the category of Paul Molitor and George Brett as far as being one the purest hitting third basemen of all-time. Of course neither Molitor nor Brett was a switch-hitter. Eddie Murray did set the bar high for switch-hitters but, as you pointed out Terrance, he never finished a season above .300. What Chipper Jones contiunes to do, and that is get better with age WITHOUT THE USE OF PERFORMANCE ENHANCING SUBSTANCES. That is, quite simply, amazing.
By Cobby
May 23, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
I loved the Mick. It is great that the Chip is beong compared to him. It is deserved!
By joe
May 23, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
what a great game. thanks goodness for mlb.com. i can catch all the games. Mantle would have been better/greater if he hadn’t been such a drunk.Chipper looks like he takes care of his body/health and will go down as the greatest switch-hitter of all time. WOW.. wish i could see some games in person…
By Will
May 23, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
I am only in mid 20’s and at first sight thought this article was outrageous. But after comparing career stats i am floored. Chipper will have Mantle passed in hits, RBI within 2 years. He already has more doubles and even if he doesnt pass him in homers he will be in the neighborhood. Not to mention chipper has .309 career avg compared to Mantle .298
By Terence Moore
May 23, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Thanks to all for the nice comments.
It’s interesting that a lot of fans have complained through the years that Chipper is aloof and that he acts as if he doesnt’ care. Too calm.
Bobby Cox explained it well. Chipper is just so focused during games.
The world really is seeing that now with the way that he’s hitting — everything.
By John Raterman
May 23, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Mantle, Murray and Chipper were great switch hitters with power. You cannot, however, have ANY article about switch hitters and not mention the greatest hitter of all time….Switch hitting Pete Rose!!!
By falconman
May 23, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Mantle with only 4 seasons with 100 ribbies. I had never realized that. That definitely puts Chipper in Mantle territory. As for Murray? Chipper absolutely smokes him as a player. Not even close.
It’s been a pleasure watching Chipper play. He loves the game and always gives it 110%. He plays the game the way it is supposed to be played. And that is the highest compliment I can give him. HOF…..1st ballot.
By butt helmet
May 23, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
GREAT ARTICLE TERRANCE. RIGHT ON!
By Sam T
May 23, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
great point aefwb! I had forgotten that. I remember when we drafted the tall, skinny SS from Florida all those years ago and we were interested in Van Poppel. He went to the A’s late in the first if memory serves.
We NEED to re-sign Tex for Chipper’s sake. He provides a great deal of protection.
By L.J.
May 23, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
In response to aefwb,
You are so right! I was a senior in high school in the DFW area the same year (1990) when Chipper and Van Poppel were coming out. All we ever heard about was Van Poppel this, Van Poppel that. He claimed he might want to go to college and play in the Olympics (yeah, right…I think he didn’t want to play for the sorry a** Braves and wanted to dupe everyone so the A’s could get him…but I have no solid proof)
When I saw that the Braves drafted a SS named Chipper Jones from Jacksonville, FL, I was like “Who the hell is he?” But I am so happy it worked out the way it did.
Although, I do wonder if TVP would have been a great one had he hooked up with Leo Mazzone (hmmm…)
By Jersey Gil
May 23, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Terence, when Chipper came first time to camp, I told my friend that this Kid look like Mickey Mantle…This a true Story…I love Chipper the way he play the Game in and out the Field. Oh i forgot…i’m 58 and i saw Mickey play….Chipper is already HOF in My book.
By Scott
May 23, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
It’s kind of disingenuous to say that Mantle didn’t hit .300 for his career when he lost that in his final season.
Mantle is still the best switch hitter to ever play (especially considering his all-around talent, including his speed). But Chipper is in the discussion for #2
By Dennis
May 23, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Chipper is nothing like Mantle. Mantle was a #1 narcissistic pig. And I know this first hand. When I tried to get him to autograph a baseball, he intentionally knocked it out of my hand, turned, and walked away.
By Dennis
May 23, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
I forgot to add, I was about 10 years old when the JERK Mantle knocked that ball out of my hand.
Yeah, sure, a great role model he was. (puke)
By Larvell Blanks
May 23, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Right on, aefwb — people forget the Todd Van Whatsisname story. “Don’t bother drafting me — I won’t play for the Braves because they stink and are a graveyard for pitchers.” For some reason the work “irony” comes to mind. (Check out this classic line from his Wikipedia entry: “his best season in Oakland was probably 1995, when he went 4-8 with a 4.88 ERA”. Glad it worked out for you, Todd.)
Are we seriously comparing Chipper to Eddie Murray, and suggesting that Chipper still has a ways to go before reaching Murray’s level? Excuse me, but Chipper is WAY better than Murray, even if he broke both legs tomorrow. If Murray hadn’t been a switch hitter, he’d simply be known as a nice .287 hitter with some power who played a LONG time. (Here’s how he closed his career while he was padding his home run numbers: .260, .261, .285, .254, .323 (impressive season, I admit), .260, .222). He wasn’t a dominating force who struck fear into opposing teams. I mean, if you’re simply going to go by number of career home runs, then you must really love Dave Kingman.
The comparison to Mantle is much more apt, although it’s clouded a bit by the mystique surrounding Mantle. If Chipper had NY on his cap, my hunch is he’d be thought of as better than Mantle already.
By BamaBrave
May 23, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
The only people gasping at your assertions, Terence, will be transplanted Northeasterners and 50-somethings who grew up (understandably) idolizing #7. The rest of us are simply nodding in agreement. Chipper deserves equal status.
There will never be another Mickey Mantle…but there will never be another Chipper, either.
By SICEM
May 23, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
At this point Chipper is the best pure hitter I have ever seen and I am 52 years old and have been playing, watching, listening to and attending games since I was 6 years old. GO CHIPPER! 400 is within your reach stay hot buddy!
By MJM
May 23, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Being a Braves Fan Chipper is my favorite now and exciting to watch. But growing up in the Bronx The Mick is my all time favorite. To me he was the most exciting ball player in my lifetime. His tape measure, towering home runs were excited me to no end. His drag punts were awsome. His speed was of Olympic Standard. He fell a point or two below a liftime 300 BA. But The Mick won the triple crown with an average of .356, The next year he led in Home Runs, RBIs and hit .365 but lost the batting title to Mr Ted Williams who hit in in the .380s which was unreal at Teds age.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Chipper became the first since Ted to hit over .400
By ChampDawg
May 23, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
Chipper may and probably will end up better than Mantle statistically. But he’ll never me a Mantle. Mantle also played for a marquee franchise in the Yankees and played during a time when ball players were more revered as heros. Chipper is a GREAT player but in the minds of the sport, he’ll never be a Mantle.
By Larvell Blanks
May 23, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
John Raterman, I just realized you were trying to be funny with that Pete Rose comment. You had me going there for a minute! I mean, Pete Rose has a lower career batting average than Chipper (.303 vs. .309), sissy power numbers (.409 vs. .550 SLG), lower on-base percentage (.375 vs. .405), and couldn’t hold a candle to Chipper’s fielding. “Oh my goodness, Rose is up?? We better walk him to get to Chipper.” HAHAHAHA, you really had me going there!!!
By Charles
May 23, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
I certainly agree that it is great that Chipper is being compared to Mantle since he is having a banner year so far. I don’t mean to spoil the party, but Mantle lead his team to numerous World Series titles despite an injury-riddled career. Chipper has been on only one such team, and that in his rookie season. And because when Mantle played those guys didn’t make the big bucks they make today Mantle played for 4 seasons where his numbers were atrocious and the Yankees were in decline, pushing his batting average below .300. In addition, Mantle played in old Yankee Stadium before it was remodeled in the 70s, with a 450’ center field and deep power alleys. Had he played in today’s homer friendly parks his numbers would be better. Finally, except for perhaps Maris during the home run splurge of 1960-61, Mantle played with players who allowed pitchers to throw him a lot of junk, and Mick struck out a lot. DiMaggio retired after Mantle’s rookie season and the other hitters in the lineup, while good, were not even close. I think it’s still a bit of a stretch to say Chipper is better than Mantle. He’s having a great year (because in part of Teixera, who is not doing as well but still perceived as a threat). In the final analysis, Mantle dominated baseball as one of the recognized top one or two players year after year, and I believe he still holds the record for most World Series home runs. Chipper will never do that. Whether we like it or not, the Braves blew their chances at immortality and have basked in a division title run that didn’t even exist when Mantle played — when Mick played you were either the best in your league or you stayed home. There was no division or wild card to sneak in on. In such an environment, it is leading your team to championships year after year, not great individual numbers, that people remember. As a Braves fan, I am pleased and delighted that Chipper is having a well-deserved great year — he is a Hall of Famer for sure and great player — but to say he’s better than Mantle is dreaming.
By Ryder
May 23, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Great article Terence. Chipper has also had to deal with playing multiple positions. Don’t forget that he has also been known for coming through in the clutch (just ask the Mets fans) for a prolonged stretch.
Much like Smoltz, Glavine and Cox it’s going to be a sad day when he calls it quits.
Would it be too much of a stretch to say that Chipper Jones is the greatest Brave of all time?
By Larvell Blanks
May 23, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Ryder - Yes, it would be too much of a stretch. Hank Aaron was a Brave, after all.
By Cody In Tennessee
May 23, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Terrance I hardly ever agree with you and your stance on certain subjects, but I want to let you know that this was a great article and think you would be a excellent sports writter if you would just stay between the lines. Racial issues will be around forever and going off on those issues only make them worse. Again, I really enjoyed the article and wish you the best in future jouranlism work.
By Navigator
May 23, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
First, let me agree, Chipper is a future hall of famer, and a great player. However, his post season records are not that of the Mantle’s or even Maris’ records. Some people turn their game up a notch in the playoffs(or world series), but others don’t. I’m afraid Chipper is among those that don’t. He is not in the same league with the great Mantle.
By Mantlefan
May 23, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Great article, my butt. Quit being such a homer. Mantle is in a league of his own. Bet you’d never say that if the Mick played for your beloved Reds or Fighting Irish. “If you ignored the 536 home runs …” is just a preposterous way to begin an argument. Why not counter with “If you ignored Chipper’s batting average …”
At least you finally responded to readers. Of course, you only respond to the positive ones.
By BabyGoatEater
May 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
I usually don;t like your articles Terrence but I’m also not one of the dumb@$$ commenters that just call you garbage…..nice article.
By Jeff
May 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Terry; see how much positive feedback you get when you write about sports instead of race?!?!?!?
By MJM
May 23, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Terrance thanks fot the article.It brings back great memories. I hate this to be a Chipper Vs Mick post because I love them both.But to be fair I would like tp remind those folks who say compare the measurements of Yankee Stadium with Turner Field and the old Launching Pad Yankee Stadium wasn’t built for guys like the Mick. It was built for pull hitters like Babe Ruth, Yogi Berra, Roger Maris.etc. Mick was not a pull hitter. He made many 410/420 ft plus outs in Yankee Stadium. If he had played in the Launching Pad or Turner Field he would have had many more Home Runs. He hit one measured at 565 ft in old Griffith Stadium in DC. Also the the poster that said he was surprised that Mick had only 4 100 plus RBI years, remember in those Days there not many players with 100 RBIs. In those days there were a lot less teams, a lot less players than today. Pitching was tougher because there was a lot less of them. Supposedly the ball was noy juiced up like it is today. It.s really not fair to compare that era with today.
By Coxfan
May 23, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
“Would it be too much of a stretch to say that Chipper Jones is the greatest Brave of all time?”
Well, there is Hank Aaron.
By by johnny
May 23, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Good article T.M.
By larryG
May 23, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Mantle also had the advantage of hitting in Yankee Stadium when it had a 296 ft right field foul line and a 3 to 4’ fence to the stands in right field. I saw both play, and he was great, but Chipper is better!
By JMar
May 23, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Whatever happened to using championships in determining who is better? Game, set, match - Mantle.
By Thedream
May 23, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Um…those of you who keep saying “Championships determining how great he was and mickey mantle leading his team” you guys quite failed to mention that he had a LOADED team (as a few people above have mentioned) that included Roger Maris, Yogi Berra, etc etc….
By AdirondackDave
May 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I would say Chipper, in the end, will rank second as the all-time Brave. Hank first, Chipper second, Spahn third.
By Riles In Oregon
May 23, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
I am one of those 50 somethings that grew up idolizing the Mick. I saw him play live once but on the CBS Yankee game of the week many times. He had raw skills that I believe were superior to Chipper. He was faster and stronger with raw power that was incredible. Yankee Stadium in those days was 296 or 298 to their version of the Pesky Pole in right, and 315 to the left field foul pole. Ah but those power alleys were another story. If I remember there was an area in left center that was 510’. It is difficult to accurately compare eras with the changes in pitching. My point is these are both great ballplayers with some comparable numbers. Not a lot is mentioned about defense, but both excelled defensively also. This argument is one of the many reasons I like chess on grass. We can always compare and debate who is better, and that makes the game even more alive. Thanks for the article Terence.
By princetonbrave
May 23, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Those of us who watch him every day know how talented he is. The numbers are catching up too.
Terrance, thanks for the insight on chipper’s observance of the details during the game - something that is difficult to pick up on when watching on TV. You can tell that he is so focused and has a great reserve of knowledge of the sport - it is like everything slows down a little for him in a way that it doesnt for other players.
By McRly?
May 23, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Well done Mr. Moore
By Danny
May 23, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
This is the first thing that Terrence Moore has ever written that I have ever agreed with, and which has ever made total sense.
By jmart1951
May 23, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
I believe that Chipper will finish his career above .300 and be compared to Mantle, moreso than Murray. The only thing that Mantle had, his whole career, that I believe Chipper is just now developing is charisma. People, fans, were just drawn to Mantle. The last several years as Atlanta has begun to bring up young players its been evident how much the everyday players look to Chipper for guidance, look to Chipper for leadership. As this has occurred I believe their high esteem of Chipper, their being drawn to Chipper, is now drawing more kids and adults to Chipper. Atlanta fans have wanted Chipper to show leadership in highly visible ways and have been disappointed that he hasn’t done that. Chipper’s approach of “walking the walk”, of earning respect is now paying big dividends as our future stars come under his kind of leadership.
By please
May 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
I don’t care about New York mets or Yanks GO BRAVES NOW LET GO AND GET FIRST PLACE BACK SEE IN OCTOBER IN WS
By The Truth
May 23, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Funny to read that Mr. Moore has changed his tune. This Braves fan remembers when Moore called Chipper and Ryan Klesko the “golden boys” and didn’t understand why the team kept them and got rid of superior talent like Tony Tarasco!
By fieldofdreams
May 23, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
I love Chipper but let’s not get carried away: although he will make the Hall of Fame, Chipper’s not in league with baseball gods like Mickey Mantle. Tony Kubek, who played shortstop on the great Yankee teams of the ‘50’s, claimed that Mantle would have hit 700-800 home runs if not for the debilitating injuries that ruined his career. Chipper does, however, compare favorably to the few third-basemen who are in the Hall, and by the time he’s finished will be among the best ever at his position.
By richbrave
May 23, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Sugar Bear:
Yours of 12:10 p.m. today. What up dude.??
By TEC
May 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Chipper has one the the best swings I have ever seen. I can only think that Ruth was as smooth with his swing, but there is little film of ruth. Just watch the other guys at the plate and they look like hackers compared to Chipper. I did not notice how smooth his swing was until I saw it in person.
By Steve
May 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
I won’t get into the debate about who is better and blah, blah, blah. Mantle and Murray were both top notch players, so why worry about it. Just being mentioned in their company would make 99.9% of baseball players ecstatic. What I will state is that it has been very enjoyable watching Chipper play his entire career as a Brave.
I am glad that TVP was a jerk. Glad it worked out for you so well Todd, stealing all that money from the A’s like you did. You should be in jail for grand theft on a scale very close to Mike Hampton and Barry Zito.
Terrence, as others have mentioned, this was a very good article, and the fact you didn’t bring race or you man-crush on David Justice into it tells me you are maturing into a writer instead of just trying to provoke people. Nice job.
By Larvell Blanks
May 23, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Navigator: “Some people turn their game up a notch in the playoffs(or world series), but others don�t.”
You mean like Mickey Mantle, whose .257 average in the postseason was 41 points below his regular season average? Way to turn it up, Mick. (Chipper’s postseason average is .288, by the way. Just counting LCS and World Series, it’s .302).
You know, people, just because something is received wisdom doesn’t mean it’s true. You can actually look these things up.
By Larvell Blanks
May 23, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
richbrave: What up right back atcha.
By Ed Glennon
May 23, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
My dad was in the baseball business so I had a chance to meet and watch a lot of the greats in the 1950’s and 60’s. I was in Yankee Stadium when Mantle hit a home run during Larson’s perfect game. I love Chipper but none of the modern day players can be compared to the greats of the 40’s, 50’s 60’s. People forget how great these guys were. Here are some examples: Mantle could drop a bunt down the first base line and beat it out. Mays missed two years in the Army during his prime Ted Williams missed more than that. I love it when an announcer will say some .220 hitter has hit 3.40 during his last ten games. Williams hit over 400 through his first 154 games. In the last two games of the year his average went from a little over .400 to .406 Remember when Gerald Perry, hitting coach now, sat out the last game of the year so his average would stay above .300. Then there are the innings eaters of the modern day pitchers. Would Feller, Gibson, Spahn be called innings eaters? They are were great starters, great middle innnings guys and great closers. Most of them could hit better than Andruw Jones. So please never compare this group to the greats of the past.
By Teddy Jack Eddy
May 23, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
Good stuff Moore,it never hurts to play to the croud once in a while.That’s not to say your points are invalid about Jones.
By Ken Stallings
May 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
It’s time we have these discussions. Because clearly Jones has earned his way into the discussion. I would add that Jones has played most of his career at 3B. This is more demanding a position and any player will tell you it’s far easier to concentrate on your swing in the outfield.
The only argument that makes much sense against Mantle is the lineup he enjoyed swinging with. It might be fair to add 50 HR to Mantle’s tally because of the protection he got. But Jones has to at least get to 550 HR to match Mantle on that very important level of power.
But in other areas of hitting Jones is already the equal of Murray and Mantle, and that’s why he’s earned the right to be mentioned.
Jones last year deserved far better from the press and the players. He earned better mention for MVP. He earned an All-Star appearance. The man shouldn’t have to hit .400 and be on a 40 HR and 120 RBI pace to earn an All-Star appearance!
This New York media and fan balloting bias is why Jones deserves more than mere mention. The man just plays the game. He takes good care of himself and there hasn’t been the slightest hint of performance enhancers. By his injuries and the normal timeline of his healing, it is the greatest evidence he never yielded to the temptation.
The one unquestioned fact is that in the pantheon of Braves players, there is Aaron and then Jones as position players. That much is clear. Jones has passed Murphy as the better hitter and does not take a back seat in leadership or professionalism on the field.
By Historia
May 23, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
When you look at Mantle, his strength in the post season wasn’t batting average but power hitting. Count the home runs, triples and doubles, and how many of his hits were RBI related.
By Navigator
May 23, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Fake Larvell Blanks: Apples and Oranges. Mantles records were all world series against the best of the National League. Compare the RBI’s that Mantle had versus those of Chipper in the World Series. Don’t embarrass Chipper with those statistics.
By BUSHWACKER
May 23, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I knew I was forgetting some one but could not put my finger on it, PETE ROSE is in the top 3, maybe not as much power, but if you need a single to drive in the winning run, I’d take Pete or Chipper in no certain order as the best,and don’t forget Pete was an ALL STAR 4 diffferent positions.
But this is about CHIPPER, maybe the best hitter of all time.
I’ve said it before,the Yankees can habe A-Rod, I’ll take Chipper!!!
By No Dawgs Here
May 23, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Great article and comments. However; I have to wonder how many homers Chipper would have if he had the luxury of a 330 foot right field. I think the homers would be at least 50 more by now. Mickey was a drunk and proven to be out right horrible to some of his fans. At least Chipper has the common sense to know who pays his bills. He takes time for fans, expecially children. He is not only a better all around player than Mickey, I think he is a far better role model. I’m not saying he is perfect, but he is a lot better then Mickey was.