HBCU Football

By DLR

December 3, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Institutionally sanctioned racism is wrong at every level—even one that allows a school to be for blacks rather than other races. You’ll also see that schools that are set up for one group of people and not others lag significantly in their broad-based local support, causing the need for the questions like this regarding of mergers to eventually get on the table. Schools set up for one race of people in this day and time are wrong. If they are merged, make sure they are done in such a fashion so that the HSBCs don’t simply consume—and essentially eliminate—the other local school, which is the fear of the supporters of the schools that are not racially established. Some academically fine schools would be destroyed if racial preferences were maintained. This doesn’t even address the question of how the State Board of Regents is willing to accept such weak academic standards in most of the HSBCs in comparison to the rest of the University System. There is a lot of “looking the other way” when it comes to these schools in our state.

By TSU Fan

December 3, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

There would never be a discussion about merging Tennessee State and Middle Tennessee. Tennessee State has its own athletic and historical tradition and could stand on its own with anyone. And Middle Tennessee has a fine program of its own. I know we are in tough times economic times but the person suggesting merging Savannah State and Albany State with other schools is opening a major can of worms.

By SRH

December 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

lets be clear, this is about race take our home, our family, our idenity, our education so we can go back to being share croppers or slaves

By ASU Fan

December 3, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

It must be remembered that although the colleges are historic black colleges; they don’t accept or just educate black students. These schools are diverse, but have majority black students. This conversation of combining schools isn’t something new. I remember being a student in the 80’s at Albany State and there was conversation then about merging with Darton.

By barry

December 3, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

There is no athletic benefit what’s so ever in merging black and whoite colleges. Most white colleges already have a proliferation of black athletes that bring those white institutions millions and millions of dollars. In fact, if you look at those white schools athlectic team (i.e. football, basketball) you would swear they were HBCU teams due to most of the prominent white universities utilize these great, black, young athletes. Merging black and white colleges atheletics show diversity on some of the HBCU athletic programs which would show diversity in our American educational and cultural system. But in reference to the money making primarily white institutions everything will stay the same with their having majority black teams and white coaches and a primarily white student body. Therefore, financially, the benefits will be the status quo, the primarily white schools benefitting with athletically segregated teams while the HBCU being blessed as a breeding ground for more cultural diversity and true equal opportunity experiences, athlectically and other, that is not offered at the primarily white institutions. Who benefits is an individuals opinion, but for America’s moral concept as a whole, HBCU may provide a more enriching experience.

By DLR has no clue

December 3, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

HBCU’s are schools just like any other. They are there to educate its students no matter what race that student is. To inform you just a litte non-African Americans that attents an HBCU are allow to to have minority scholarships that includes whites, hispanics or whoever. It’s a way to promote diversity within HBCU’s. And they have the same standard as any other school in the state system. I didn’t go to an HBCU but I know little more about than most people like yourself

By Doug

December 3, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

I vote Nay, on this one. No athletic or financial benefit, I don’t know the extent of Darton’s Athletic Program. I just check the website and if I knew they had an excellent wrestling program, I would have opted for Darton. If the University Systems of Georgia is in such a bad shape, then more GA university system schools should consider combining or closure = Less jobs to further contribute to the recession is always the best answer. Nay again! Sounds like bad politics to me by a grandstanding good ol’ politician.

By DLR

December 3, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

HBCU’s “have the same standard as any other school in the state system”? Hmmm… Not quite sure where you get that. Have you looked at the average SAT scores at HBCU’s vs the rest of the university system? I have. Have you looked at the disparity in the pass/fail rate of the HBCU’s of the Regent’s Exam vs the rest of the system?” I have. Have you taken classes at HBCU’s and seen how easy the classes are compared to their equivalent at other universities around the state? I have. Have you spoken with professors at HBCU’s that have received pressure from the school to lower academic standards from the level they used at other colleges so that the kids can pass? I have. I have taken classes at a HBCU, my kids have as well whenever they need a shortcut to a college credit, and I have a sibling that got a degree from one. I know a bit about what I’m talking about when it comes to these schools having substantially different academic standards than the Board of Regents accepts at other institutions. Two PhD’s at one of them have openly talked to me about the pressure reduce academic standards there. One even went on at length about how some of the students are truly qualified to do top level academic work but that they were being short-changed by the lower expectations of the school. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, when you look at the lack of demand for many of their grads in the job market. Aside from government jobs, the market is saying the output needs to be improved. With the proper emphasis and motivation, I believe it can be.

By DB

December 3, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

DLR, everything you just wrote is an absolute lie. You probably have never set foot on an HBCU campus in your sorry life. Get back under your rock, idiot.

By DLR

December 3, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

“DLR, everything you just wrote is an absolute lie. You probably have never set foot on an HBCU campus in your sorry life. Get back under your rock, idiot.”

What did I say that was not true? As a former HBCU student, parent of HBCU students, and relative of HBCU grads, and proponent of the improvement of HBCU schools, where am I wrong in the facts I listed? I appreciate the fact that it’s easy for you call me names, but I would appreciate some facts in your discussion a bit more.

By Reality

December 3, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

There are no white institutions as they are all attended by black student, although they are majority white. There are some white students at predominately black universities but the fact remains that they are predominately black. The graduates of these institutions are well behind the graduates of “predominately white universites” even the black graduates of these. This is the epitome of racism, same as Miss Black America and other pageants of this sort. If black America wants racism to die, then get the plank out of your eye, before you complain about the speck in mine.

By DLR

December 3, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

I apologize to DB and everyone else in this blog. I have a truly new remorse for what my forefathers have done to even make this an issue dating back to the 1800’s before HBCU’s were even thought about. We never expected HBCU’s to grow. I will try to be a better person and have more understanding of other men and women that have overcome segregation in every form imaginable. I will not judge education based on the color of a person’s skin or affiliation to HBCU’s and lay my prejudices aside. I will write the Senate Committee to say that as a whole. You and I know this verbiage from Senate Higher Education Committee Chairman Seth Harp is not really about saving a buck, but it is more about trying to straddle a political fence. The ego of the committee as a whole is unfounded – the committee really does not understand diversity. Even if there is only one black person on the higher education committee and none of us have ever attended a HBCU institution. I apologize again.

By MD

December 3, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

In response to those few who make the generalized statements that HBCU students are a lower order of humans and that the schools are centers of mediocracy, I would like to share this response from another listserve where someone made the same comment: “…Since becoming a University, SSU has increased its grant funding (from $880000 in 1997 to $14.7 million in 2006) and is now ranked 5th in the state for grant funding (#1UGA, #2GATECH, #3MCG, [the new] #4GA State, #5SSU). We have had the Regents’ Distinguished professor (best professor in the University System including GTECH, UGA, MCG, etc…) in 2004, 2005, 2006 and had a Callaway Endowed Professor 1999-2003. While SSU does not offer PHD or Professional/Terminal Degrees, 75% of our undergraduate and master degree programs hold top ranked professional accreditations. In fact, outside of the post graduate degrees, SSU has the same accreditations and more grant research than Howard and Xavier and most other HBCU’s not to mention most other traditional colleges/universities. Regarding rankings, when you step out side of the annual Newsweek polls (which you can pay to get your ranking up) NAFEO identified SSU as one of the top 12 HBCU’s (out of 104) in the nation. In 2000 SSU received the highest ranked SACS accreditation that year (and received 5 accommodations – receiving ANY accommodations is extremely rear for any university, especially an HBCU)”

By richbrave

December 3, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

LEO WILLINGHAM:

I hope I don’t step on any toes here as that certainly is not my intent. But this controversy goes back to my suggestions a couple of blogs in the past. There I stated that athletic alliances of schools considered HBCU’s with strong FCS conferences might be of benefit to the former. As an alternative, I suggested and Mr. WILLINGHAM agreed that another play-off round in the FCS could benefit athletically strong HBSU’s who are currently on the outside of the FCS looking it.

It is highly unlikely that higher educational institutions which historically have offered opportunities to the African-American community are going to forthrightly march into mergers with predominately white schools, nor should they. After all, its not HBCU’s fault that more white students could not project minority status upon themselves in the past, or even today. The opportunities are open to all and always have been. But it is true, as one post suggests, schools serving only one segment of the general population are weaker for it. A broader student base is called for. More’s the how of the gordian knot which separates our higher educational apparatus than the why.

If a GRADUAL assimilation of the historic institutions of our disparate cultures is to be pursued, what better venue than athletics.? The UNIVERSITY of RICHMOND now has a black head coach. Its first in history. Reknowned as one of the south’s more reactionary institutions, my school is trying mightily to subvert that perception in numerous ways and not solely on the athletic field.

When will RICHMOND and VIRGINIA UNION consider a merger.? After all, both are HISTORICALLY Baptist institutions unless I’m misinformed for which I apologize profusely. But I think not. There’s an awakening in AMERICA that our citizenry has more in common than we ever thought previously.

Perceptions are changed all over the world about absolutes here in the UNITED STATES. As I said yesterday to a good friend from KENYA who teaches in RICHMOND’s foreign language department, “What do you think of AMERICA?” To which he responded, “there are many things I think of in regard to AMERICA.” Then I added, “just when you think you’ve got the country figured out, its goes an surprises you.” I smiled a gesture of acceptance and personal reassurance. He smiled that knowing smile of recognition and acceptance.

To me that’s AMERICA, and this merger business is just another positive progression toward a homogenous society where the precepts laid out in the late 1700’s can finally bear fruit for everyone. Just don’t rush to judgement and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Its time for considered reflection by each individual for whom this controversy is of import, and for the beginnings of substantive options for change to be laid down. What better start than through athletics?

By tyger

December 3, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

HBCUs PLAY VITAL ROLE

The election of Barack Obama is already leading some to unfounded notions of racial equality. The HBCUs were founded to educate the descendants of former slaves.

Although, the descendants have other educational options, but for HBCUs, many of those descendants - still to this day -would not receive a quality college education.

Thats not excuse making thats the reality of the state of higher education in America today. It is illustrated by the sobering statistic of the number of black head coaches in Division I Football.

Yes, for various political reasons Barack Obama was elected President. But that does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean there’s a level playing field for the races in America.

In fact, if G.W. hadnt been so horrible, there probably wouldnt be a Barack Obama.

But back to the question. Are there benefits to consolidation? Certainly, there is always some efficiency gained by consolidating similar units.

However, do the burdens outweigh the benefits is the question?

The historical legacy and mission of the HBCUs is non-negotiable, they must continue to exist and serve their historical missions. However, that in no way precludes change.

It may surprise some, but not those who have attended HBCUs - the black faculty have since been displaced by whites and foreigners for some time now. Only the top administrators are black.

The student body is increasingly diverse, with minority white and international students. For years, non-black athletes have attended HBCUs. QBs, kickers, swimmers, tennis and golf, etc. are not uncommon; so I dont see any reason why that wouldnt continue.

In sum, a merger that “genuinely” preserved the HBCUs legacy, mission, culture would not hurt.

But thats easier said than done, institutions would have to define themselves beyond race in order to know what was important and worth fighting to preserve.

More resources, more students, more athletes to choose from would only enhance HBCU sports, but then would they still be HBCU sports?

By kirkinga

December 3, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Wanting to merge HBCU’s is a time honored tradition of a certain political party.

African-American families have the power to put a stop to this merger obsession and raise the fortunes of HBCU’s at the same time.

If the top African-American athletes refused to attend the colleges of the SEC, ACC and other BCS conferences and instead took their talents to HBCU’s, then revenue would start to flow to those schools. You would probably see more African-American head coaches as well.

The NFL and NBA are already scouting HBCU’s so it is not as if these players risk going undiscovered by the professional ranks.

By richbrave

December 3, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

ray:

HBCU blog. Opposite HAMPTON’s pix. I’ll check out the FALCON’s blog re: season tix.

By Anderson

December 4, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

All I know is if Georgia State University merges with or takes over Morris Brown College as has been rumored, it would benefit GSU (and MBC) tremendously.

GSU would then take over Herndon Stadium and eventually renovate and expand it. It is a pretty nice stadium with a great view of the Atlanta skyline.

A GSU-Morris Brown College merger makes sense. It would save MBC and it would provide GSU with additional downtown acreage. GSU has a diverse student population. There are many students who transferred from MBC when it faced financial hardship. GSU also get many transfers from Clark University as well.

By Mr. William M. Head

December 4, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

What in the bloody hell are some of yall talking about…I’ve been on Onnidan.com, HBCUsports.com, and a few other websites that have been covering this so called merger between the schools in question…

first of all, Whoever asked when will VUU and Richmond merge???

Never…VUU is a viable athletic program on its own, winning Division II national championships (not 1, plural) in Basketball and challenging every year for CIAA titles in several sports…so what sense does it make to merge with a Marginal Division I program that doesn’t challenge in its own conference…oh yeah, yall have a black head coach…congrats, so do at least 20 other teams in D1-AA…however, there are 3 black head coaches in D1…none of them with over 3 years experience…talk to me about that…talk to me about how yall have “coaches in waiting” when there are qualified coaches all over D-1, D-1AA, and D-2…How do you have Snyder coming back to K-State, with no interview process whatsoever…so until I see some progess in that and other problems in athletics, this topic can go to hell…

and you’re talking about merging schools that have their own balance and athletic history???…

SSU was a powerhouse Division II program and its move to Division I was hampered by poor administration…now that they have an invested administration, you have seen proof of progress in this fall semester alone…SSU’s football team had their best season in the past 5 years…their men’s basketball team have 1 upset on the year and have taken more funded teams to late games lost more than once..Their baseball team is always a threat…Oh yeah, They also have a WHITE head football coach…yeah, i had to throw that in for you quazi racist that want to throw in “We have a black football coach”…glad you can count it…

Albany State is a playoff threat in Division II in football, volleyball, track and field, and baseball….what more do you need to say to that…

so what would come out of a merger between these two schools and 2 PWC’s that don’t have as much of a background…

NOT A DAMN THING….

By Ron Gilliam

December 4, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

An ideal method of additional funding for HBCU’s is for Black athletes to develop a consciousness and enroll in their athletic programs. HBCU’s could apply for D-1 status and enjoy the benefits of TV revenues-the networks would be forced to showcase the best talent on the market. In the meantime, major colleges should be willing to pay a percentage of their sports revenue to HBCU’s for not aggressively recruiting Black athletes. Needless to say, I don’t support a merger.

By richbrave

December 4, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

MR. WILLIAM HEAD:

Never said my take would be popular here, but it will happen. Not necessarily RICHMOND and VIRGINIA UNION, but some mergers will make sense eventually. BTW go to inRICH.com and read today’s column on VUU’s current problems.

By Gary Thomas

December 4, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Don’t be in such a big rush to assimilate HBCUs into the “mainstream.” A very wise man once said, “Anything you do not control can be used as a weapon against you…” I wonder if Brandeis is considering merging with Boston U. or any other area universities.

By richbrave

December 4, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Thank you MR. EARL STAFFORD. Although not an invitee, a most magnanimous gesture and wonderous gift for hundreds of less fortunate Americans than thee.