HBCU Football

By What happened?

December 1, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

What’s the deal with Tuskegee losing to Alabama State? Anyone out there attend the game and can tell me what happened?

By Proud Bulldog

December 1, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

You are right in saying SCSU went down fighting against App State. The Bulldogs played those boys tough throughout the game, but their QB was too much to handle. The MEAC showed it can hang with the big dogs. Maybe we’ll take the next step in ‘09.

By lipo1975

December 1, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Someone explain to me how a Divison II team ranks higher than any FCS (formerly Div 1-AA) Conference Champion. So much for subjectivity. Go Dogs. Roof! Go SC State

By Fall79

December 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

I think the Grambling win over Southern was a great game to watch and it’ll be good to see a rematch of Grambling vs Jackson State in the SWAC Championship. I really have to ask the question though - what does this game really mean though? Maybe it means I’m the big guy on this block; but on a national scence, it’s relatively insignificant. The SWAC champion should go on to play in the “1-AA”. The only way to grow in stature is to play teams outside of your “neighborhood.” I’m an HBCU Alum (JSU) and back in the day, we played Boise St, Eastern KY, FAMU, etc… on the national playoff scene and gained national exposure. Next fall JSU plays Miss State (significant for us)and the rest of the SWAC should take note - we took notes from Grambling in that respect. Time to stop the madness and get rid of or play the SWAC Championship earlier to allow the SWAC to compete on a national stage. Enough of this small ball, let’s go to another level

By Leo Willingham

December 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Fall79, You bring up a legitimate point. I’ve heard from several people wondering how the Gramblings and Jackson States of the world would compete on a national stage. In my opinion, it boils down to understanding what’s more important - the revenue generated from the Bayou Classic and SWAC title game or the exposure (and potential future income) generated from a deep run in the FCS playoffs. It would be hard to turn down the money generated from those two games, but the national exposure gained by doing well (or even winning) the FCS playoffs would be tremendous. Anyone else with a thought on the matter?

By maddog

December 1, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I saw the Tuskegee/Alabama St game on webcast and neither team played very well. Skegee had several opportunities to kick field goals when drives stalled, but chose to go for it on forth down. Obviously, their coaching staff had NO confidenece in the kicking game. Also, the refs missed an apparent touchdown in the endzone late in the game that would have put Skegee ahead. However, I must give Alabama St credit, they played the game with a passion and a purpose.

By Fall79

December 1, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Leo, no doubt playing in the SWAC Championsip has financial benefits, but if you follow the Troy, Boise St, UT Chatt, App State etc.. model of playing Div 1 teams for a hefty payday, you can fund your programs,and get your players national exposure and experience of playing in front of huge crowds. It’ll attract more skilled athletes (coaches and administrators) to your program, raise the level of play in the conference, and benfit each program financially. The way I see it, that’s a win-win-win scenario. Again, time to step up stop playing small ball

By JR Salazar

December 1, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

This is why you play the games. Conventional wisdom sometimes needs to be given a suckerpunch or two. Look for Grambling to jump over both of them if they get it done against Jackson State at Legion in December.

By otisp51

December 1, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

We will not know how the SWAC would perform against the the teams in the FCS playoffs until the powers that be figure out a way to send someone other than the winners of each division to the SWAC championship game on Dec. 13th. Because the SWAC schedule is not complete until Thanksgiving weekend, and the SWAC Championship isn’t until the 13th of Dec, it is hard to send the SWAC champ to the playoffs. One other problem that exsist is one of the two teams participating in the Bayou Classic, is usually one of the participants in said championship game. So for a SWAC team to be in the playoffs, changes would have to be made. Since the Bayou isn’t going away, how about some creative scheduling.

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

LEO WILLINGHAM:

RICHMOND just PAID $45,000 for a first round home game against EASTERN KENTUCKY. They outbid the Kentuckians for that right. Less than 3,000 attended the win by the SPIDERS, a decidedly underwhelming response when the stadium holds 21,000+. However, RICHMOND understood it would be the ONLY match-up possibility for a home date. Financially, the school took a serious bath. Yet, the AD and administration did not blink an eye because of the possibility of national TV(ESPN)exposure in the second round and the respect that winning brings to the football program at U of R.

Your question leads me to say, and I believe this to be true; the prestige of securing a national championship far outweighs the profits secured by a provincial bowl win.

Reverting to my earlier post on a previous blog of yours, either consider allying and merging with stronger conferences to be considered for selection in the championship series or add another round to the play-offs and expand the field to 32 participants.

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

P.S. RICHMOND now begins playing games on occasion BEFORE school starts. Everything used to begin after LABOR DAY. Now school and games are considered before that date. This allows the athletes to be available for late season play-off games or as a last resort, to study and strengthen their G.P.A. My wife who is a long-time faculty member has a current football player who is having difficulties in her classroom. He will have no time to bone-up before her exam next week due to the second round preparation necessary for the SPIDERS Saturday visit to BOONE. How these young men succeed on the field AND in the class-room is beyond me.

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

AND a final comment. Of the five CAA members selected for the Championship series, only MAINE lost in the first round. This validates the selection process, but still leaves many equally deserving athletically talented teams cramming for finals instead of exhibiting their skills in front of a national audiance.

By Tbanks

December 1, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

I disagree I think the money the schools make from SWAC and the Classic is more important than the FCS.

WE need to bring back the Heritage and Pioneer Bowl. Let ESPN put it on TV. Work out a better deal for us to be shown in prime time.

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Tbanks:

Everybody to his own. No need to equivocate my position.

By Howard

December 1, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Leo…didn’t you used to work for the Douglas County Sentinel sports dept.?? This is Coach Heavner from down here in Fla. You were a fine sports writer and I liked what you wrote in the column. Keep up the good work!!

By glw

December 1, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

The best way is to move the Bayou Classic up 2 weeks to the last weekend of the regular season and do away with the conference championship game and play a traditional round robin league schedule with maybe 8 games. that way you keep the Bayou Classic, sure you lose the league championship game, but you gain more exposure by playing a FCS playoff game. I agree, its time for the SWAC to stop thinking on a small level and schedule some money games against bigger schools.

By Matt

December 1, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

If you visit wsfa and watch the last down in hiper speen by right clicking into zoom you will see that tuskegee’s WR is in bounds. In case you need clarification the rule is 1 foot in. Also there was several plays that were overlooked by officials. To top this off they left 2.34 seconds on the clock on 4th and 10

By tjs

December 1, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

Why are SWAC teams not in the FCS playoffs? Are they afraid of being shown UP? SC ST played well against the fending champ APP ST…I give the MEAC props for sending their best.

By Chris B

December 1, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

I attended the Turkey Day Classic and it was one of the sloppiest, most undisciplined games I have seen since the 2002 Falcons/Saints game. There was Penalty after penalty, many of the really boneheaded like a Tuskegee player shoving an ASU player after ‘Skegee had stopped them on 3rd down, giving State a first and 10. It was a dramatic game coming down to Tuskegee having 4 chances from the ASU 16 to win, but the Tigers did not really deserve this one. ASU was fired up. Tuskegee was flat. Both bands were really good.

By Fall79

December 2, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

I love the dialogue about the SWAC and particularly FCS participation. I ask the question what’ the difference in playing in the NCAA basketball tourney against the “big boy” versus that of competing in the football FCS? I wish there was a way to elevate this blog discussion to those SWAC decision makers who apparently are only looking at the short term bottom line. Now is the time for vision. 20 years ago Boise State was a 1-AA team that came to Jackson and beat the No.1 ranked JSU Tigers 19-7. I use Boise St (and Troy) as an example of how to expand your program where it can truly be a consistent reveue stream to the program. Now is the time to let go of the “Turkey Day” classics which are good for seeing ole faces (and flmes) and going to a good party with the bruhs, but are really nothinig more than that in the grand scheme of things. If we don’t have the vision, at least have the good sense to copy a model that has worked.

By Leo Willingham

December 2, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Fall79, As usual you are bringing up some excellent points. Richbrave, Otisp51 and glw brought up some good points as well. It seems like most are in agreement that it’s time for the SWAC to get into the FCS mix. Some want to keep Classic games around, others are not as enthused about Classics. Personally, I would love to see a format in which everything can be incorporated (Classic games, SWAC championship, national playoffs). Am I asking for too much? How much of a logistical (or better yet financial) nightmare would it be to work everything into the mix?

By Keeping It Real

December 2, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

I am a Tennessee State grad and I can assure you that it is very tough playing a non HBC school on a weekly basis. TSU matches up well with JSU,FAMU(although they beat us like a drum every year in the Dome), but they have to bring their A game every week in the OVC. Lets face it guys, we cannot match up well in depth as the good players go to the big schools. TSU has managed to grab some of these players as tranfers becuase they do not get enough playing time at the big schools. Thats why we almost won the conference tittle this year.

By Fall79

December 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Keeping it Real; that’s the point i’m trying to make. It’s time to raise the bar… I go back to the Boise St model. 20 years ago they were a 1-AA school same as JSU, TSU, FSU, etc… They didn’t rest on their laurels as evidenced by where they are today. JSU, TSU, etc.. can stay at 1-AA just as Appalachain State, but they should step outside of the SWAC and play Div 1 schools (for the revenue and exposure). Staying consistent with this as part of a bigger plan will not only bring financial benefits to our programs but that of talented players, coaches and administrators who will catch the vision and show other HBCU’s how to take control of their own financial and athletic destiny. Keep It Real - time to wake up if we are to survive. AL Sanders JSU class of ‘82

By richbrave

December 2, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

The majority consensus appears to favor going forward in a new direction. Just as our country has done.

The newest participants in the FCS sweeps will not always be as strong as the current resident programs. But as young men see that these new schools have access to national exposure, recruits will begin to attend programs that heretofore have been losing superior athletes to those more established BCS and FCS programs. This spreads the talent base and slowly the new adherents become competitive in the national scheme of things.

Of course, it doesn’t make effective recruiting any easier, but it should provide some young men a higher education that might not have had that availability otherwise.

By Hurricane

December 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

By Keeping It Real

December 2, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Fall79,

I know what you are saying but it is not an easy thing to do at a HBCU school. Middle Tennessee State(predominantly white school just south of Nashville) did it but they have been clobbered over the past few years. Remember when FAMU stepped out and got its butt kicked every week? Alabama State thought about it but retreated. Its better not to write a check that your butt can’t cash. Personally, I would rather play and hopefully beat JSU, FAMU, Southern and Grambling instead of getting clobbered by bigger and better funded teams. I miss the fun and tradition of the old days.

By greg

December 2, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

This is just another case of a good rivalry game. In the previous 4 meetings, the games were decided by a touchdown or less and all were decided late in the fourth qrt or in overtime.

By GABred

December 2, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

I think we missed that legitimate chance to elevate a HBCU program to a substainable Div-1 Program. We had an excellent oppurtunity back in Grambling’s heyday when the Doug Williams, and the sorts ruled the game. At that time a SWAC all-star team could realisticly field as many future NFL stars as the BIG 10 or SEC. But the smallness of our vision, allowed the larger schools to attract our blue chip athletes and now it is almost unthinkable that today’s blue chippers would even consider an HBCU. Had the powers that be dreamed big, undoubtedly they could have maintained a degree of loyalty in our community that would have allowed us to field competitive teams annually. Which I feel would have paved way for 2 or 3 more HBCUs (Jackson State, FAMU, SC State, for example to follow). But in today’s NCAA foothold that happening is near impossible, it was an opportunity missed in my opinion. I still would like to see more of our schools competing in the title chase. A national championship is something both players and university can benefit from as opposed to just the financial benefits the school covets and the players getting bragging rights to show for there work.

By Fall79

December 2, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Just for simplicity sake, let’s just address the SWAC Championship. What I’m suggesting here is not about JSU beating Grambling or vice versa… and I’m not suggesting that JSU or Grambling launch into a plan to move into the D1 category. My argument is that we move into a more competivitve arena on all levels as it relates to promoting the game of football at HBCU’s and competing on a national scene anually. The level of play has gone in reverse and so have the revenues - that’s not growth. You know there are entirely too many bright minds that come out of HBCU’s yet our athletic facilities and programs suffer from lack of vision and dare I say, the clarity of vision to walk away from some traditions (that may be outdated).

By Al Beeski

December 2, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Trust me, I saw Tuskegee play on TV against Bama A&M and live against Albany St. and they are NOT that good. I have no idea what happened but Atkinson really regressed from last year. Word is he looked horrible again Saturday, as Bama St. killed any chance of him at least getting a look at the next level. Tuskegee would have been 1 & done in the D-II playoffs as well. They are a good team in a very weak SIAC and an ASU grad & fan who is a diehard football fan, our league just doesn’t stack up against top notch D-II competition.

By Al Beeski

December 2, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

And Leo, as for that dilemma on what to do as far as postseason goes………. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out they need to move these Classics up so that they can make a deep run into the playoffs if possible. Everybody will still party & enjoy themselves down in Nawlins regardless of when they play the game. You give your program much needed exposure in recruiting by playing & making a run in the playoffs, as well.