Home > Feeding Frenzy > Archives > 2008 > September > 17 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHave you been surprised by the “hidden costs” of dining out?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
My friend Ben is a natural salesman. He loves to engage any one in conversation. We recently went out to dinner at an upscale Italian restaurant with him and his wife, Nancy. They are the first to admit that they are not gourmands, so they often put their trust in the staff’s hands for recommendations.
We met them at the bar, where Nancy had ordered a glass of wine, asking the bartender to pick something out, basically, that was red. When we moved to the table, Ben asked our waiter, if he had but one meal to eat at the restaurant what it would be.
The waiter quickly named an entree. Ben then looked at him and said, “If that is the most expensive thing, I’m going to be really disappointed in you.” Sure enough when he opened the menu, it was the one item that didn’t even have a price listed - it was clearly an “if you have to ask, you can’t afford it” item.
He gave the waiter one more chance and again, he responded with the most expensive meat options. Both Ben and Nancy ordered the spaghetti with tomato sauce.
It wasn’t until we got the check that we realized that the “generic” wine that Nancy continued with after the bar was also the most expensive, at $22 a glass. Who knew!!
If it had just been one or the other incident, we probably wouldn’t have noticed or minded, but instead we came away thinking this place was totally gouging us and we probably won’t go back.
Have you ever been in a restaurant situation where the “special” was more of a “special surprise” when the tab arrived?
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By Virginia
September 17, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Hidden costs — one of my pet peeves. Ever noticed that most restaurants don’t list their drink prices? I’d like to know if my Lemon Drop is going to cost $6.50 or $16.50.
By Becky
September 17, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
This shouldn’t be such a suprise, as most wait staff are taught to do this..Why would they want to recommend the cheapest thing that they have?
By Dan
September 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Not so sure most wait staff are taught to do that. Just because the item is the most expensive on the menu doesn’t mean the restauarant makes the most money on it. Now they are taught to always push apps coffee and desert because there are higher margings and lower prices. However the tip is directly related to the price only so they definitely earn more by suggesting that. So yes what this means is it is the poor hardworking waitstaff bilking you, not the owner/company. and I waited tables for years through and after college
By kc
September 17, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
I fail to see how these are “hidden costs” if you take 5 minutes to READ THE MENU. Plus asking the waitron to recommend a dish is not how you learn to appreciate a cuisine.
Just start out with what you like and recognize, and then branch out (And the prices are right there!)
As far as ordering wine is concerned, why not just ask for the WINE LIST first???? Guess what…..there are prices on it!!!
By kalalu
September 17, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Of course servers ‘suggestively sell’ the most or one of the most expensive things on the menus. As a server in college, I, along with other servers, was taught to suggest ‘add-ons’ that cost 50-cents to a few dollars more. A higher bill=higher tip percentage. That is why they do this, to increase the odds that they get a decent tip. If it’s really that big of a deal, ask first. I wouldn’t have just asked the bartender to pick out a wine. I would have order the ‘house wine’. It’s cheaper, usually between 4-6 dollars, if that much.
By TC
September 17, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
If you are too stupid to look at the wine list, you deserve to get gouged. If you ask for a recommendation, then order the most boring thing on the menu (pasta & tomato sauce??), you deserve to get gouged.
Also, servers couldn’t care less if you decide to return or not. They are there to keep the check average high; which translates into higher tips. If guests don’t come back and the restaurant fails, there’s another one opening up around the corner.
By Stacey
September 17, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
I have been on both ends of that spectrum. My husband and I used to visit a seafood restaurant occasionally and they always had a daily special that was not on the menu. As was your friend’s experience, the special was always more expensive than anything on the menu!
On the otherhand, we recently visited on of the seafood chains and my husband asked for the king crab legs. The waitress pointed out an order of king crab that a different waitress had taken to another table and advised him that a particular snow crab platter had more crab meat and was $5 less than the king crab. She told him that if he preferred the king crab that of course he could order it, but because she felt that the snow crab was a better deal, she felt obligated to tell the customers. Hubby did choose the snow crab and left an extra tip for the waitress for her honesty. Funny thing was, while we were waiting for our check a waiter brought an order of king crab legs to the table across from us and we heard the customer exclaim “Is that all of it!” when we put the plate on the table. We haven’t been back to that particular restaurant since then just because we haven’t been in the area but it is one that we will visit again.
By Lissa
September 17, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
What kills me is the charge for a soft drink in many restaurants. It’s just ridiculous! Unless I’m being served from an individual bottle, there’s no way it should cost more than $2 anywhere. Fountain drinks are cheap to serve, so I don’t understand the price in some places. We have a little sticker shock every time we get the bill at O’Charley’s just on the sodas. I’m one of those people who might get one refill at the most, so it just isn’t fair.
By rip & read
September 17, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Ben and Nancy should stay at home and eat Chef Boyardee from a can.
By Miss P
September 17, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Yes, I remember once when I dined at STRIP. I asked for a glass of chardonnay and didn’t specify which one. The waitress brought me the most expensive one. What’s worse is I was with a large party, so she automatically received gratuity anyways. Had I been with a small party her tip definitely would have suffered. Expensive does not necessarily equal best.
By michelle
September 17, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
as far as hidden costs go…. how about the hidden cost of “take out fee” if you don’t eat at the restaurant? in addition to your “take out fee”, which i concede really is a minimal amount - usually $.50 per entree, you are asked for a tip as well.
i am a regular weekend patron and sometimes during the week, dine-in patron at a mexican restaurant near my house. although i’m not known by name, everyone in there knows me and my daughter by face. just recently they began charging a take-out fee, i’ve noticed. i feel insulted! i spend a lot of time and money in there every week to be charged a fee because ONE night i decide i want to dine at my own home.
other places have begun charging these fees as well, and you know what? they don’t get a tip when they are charging me to take my food home.
By Perkle
September 17, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
I would never go to a restaurant and not review the menu/prices. If something I was interested in didn’t have a price, I would ask first. Of course, money has always been tight for us so I can’t just say, bring me whatever you think is best. Of course they will pick out the most expensive thing. If you are embarrassed by reviewing prices, most restaurant’s have their menus online. You could check them out before you even go.
By getsome
September 17, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Ignorance does not necessarily equal bliss.
By Thinking
September 17, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Yes. And I especially like it when they add the tip in because you came with a large group. How many waiters have reminded you that the tip was already included? If I notice, they did not remind me that is all they get: 18%.
That happened to me last week, and I forgot to check the tip item. But I did help everyone else who was digging for more dollars for the tip. He did better on mine but lost on everyone else. I suspect he would have done better overall if he had reminded us. I always go 20-25% or more.
By Paul
September 17, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
If a server is doing a half way decent job, he/she should ask what the customer likes before making any recommendation. By not asking and just recommending the most expensive thing, the server is definitely just trying to run up his/her ticket. That is poor service. If he/she would take time to ask questions and provide some good customer service then it is much more likely that the customer is going to order more, as in apps., dessert, coffee, wine, etc. It’s all about taking care of the customer and you shall be rewarded.
However I do agree with all the posts of “look at the menu”. Not that hard to figure out what you are spending.
By catlady
September 17, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Wah, wah, wah. Too much silly complaining.
By stu
September 17, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
This is what is known as upselling. Not only is it encouraged in the restaurant business, many places hold nightly contests to see which server can upsell the most - many times winning cash prizes. Even if there is no active competition, there is always pressure…pressure for the establishment to achieve higher revenues and pressure on servers to sell more to make more in tips (15% of $5 class of wine is .75, 15% of $22 glass of wine is $3.30). These businesses are counting on you to be too embarrassed to ask about prices - don’t let them bully you. If price is an issue, then ask. If you feel like you are not being valued as a customer then leave, never go back, and tell all your friends not to go.
By ron
September 17, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
I don’t go out to eat anymore.There are no hidden costs in that.
By Lisa
September 17, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
I will frequently ask a server or bartender their recommendation. More often than not, I’ve had good results - of course I do tend to ask “I’m thinking about the … and … what would you recommend”. Having an idea about what I like gives the server a starting point for his/her recommendations.
If I get good suggestions, I tell EVERYONE - server, manager, friends and if I get those suggestions where I think the server is just trying to pad their tip, I also tell EVERYONE. The best experience I’ve ever had was at a certain French American Bistro - y place. The bartender, Daniel, was well versed not only wine recommendations (I had a long wait for my dining companion) but he also had excellent food recommendations. His knowledge of his overall product helped turn a one time event into someplace I’ll be frequenting more often.
By Tom
September 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
Exactly how is this “hidden costs” of dining out? You knew the price of the entree. You easily could have seen the price of the glass of wine.
I thought this article would be about costs that you may not consider when dining out, such as gasoline, valet parking, babysitter if you’ve got small kids, cover charge if the place has entertainment, etc.
Now that would be a more interesting article. Not some whining like this!
By Tom
September 17, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Exactly how is this “hidden costs” of dining out? You knew the price of the entrees. You easily could have seen the price of the glass of wine. And why not ask the price of the special? Were you born yesterday? The special is always a special price…meaning “higher” in case you were indeed born yesterday.
I thought this article would be about costs that you may not consider when dining out, such as gasoline, valet parking, babysitter if you’ve got small kids, cover charge if the place has entertainment, etc.
Now that would be a more interesting article. Not some whining like this!
By Michelle
September 17, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
You should never ask a waiter his or her opinion. They are simply servants who should do as they are told. Do not embarass yourself. I always treat my servant as their role warrants and never have a problem. Of course, however, I am French, so I know better.
By islandchefin
September 17, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
I’m with you Tom!
By islandchefin
September 17, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
I’m with you Tom!
By Jerome
September 17, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
The title of this article should be either “Dumb or Dumber” or “I don’t know how to stay on point.” There wasn’t anything in this article that suggests “Hidden costs of dining out.” The restaurant did not hide anything from you and your friends.
As others have stated, it was Nancy’s dumbA$$ fault for not asking for a wine list. She could have at least asked how much the wine cost before she took it if she was on a budget. It was also Ben’s dumbA$$ fault for asking an open ended question for suggestions. If budget was his main issue he should have stated. Didn’t you say this was an upscale restaurant? So, did his dumbA$$ not know how to just look in the menu first before asking for suggestions?
Who hired you anyway? Next time don’t waste people’s times with something that is clearly not what your title suggests.
By Daisy
September 17, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
No free refills on fountain drinks. I was at a restaurant recently where the served me Diet Coke in a very small glass that was 75% ice. The soda was flat and there was hardly any of it. When I asked for a refill, I was told it would be another $1.99. Another restaurant I dined at recently charged $2.75 for a fountain beverage. They offered refills, but it was still pricey. If I had known it would be that much, I might have considered drinking water and splitting the price of the drink with the server as a tip. I also do not like restaurants that require you to valet park. I have had problems with valet parking in the past (mysterious dents, losing my car for 45 minutes, etc.) so I try to avoid handing over my keys if at all possible. I don’t want to not tip the valet guy, but I don’t like being forced into using his services.
By KJ
September 17, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Any restaurant that charges for soft drink refills needs to be set on fire.
By Tiredofit
September 17, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Jeanne,
A “gourmet” appreciates fine food.
A “gourmand” simple loves to eat regardless. (Trough & Brew, Uncle Billy’s All you can eat…..)
This is not a sleight - just a correction.
Without the snide attitude of many of the posters on this subject, in terms of hidden charges, I think your friends have to be responsible for what they order. The onus is on the customer to read toe menu, or ask, if a price is not posted.
The term “special” means different things in different places.
In a diner its generally the daily deal -for the customer.
In a restaurant that serves wine, its generally the deal for the house. On the other hand, the attitude that “if you have to ask you can’t afford it.” is utter non-sense. This is not Paris, Rome, London, New York….. Especially for some wannabe bistro with hand chalked menus in Virginia Highlands……
Free refills on anything but tap water are a courtesy, not a right. If you’re concerned, you should inquire - before the fact.
I despise embedded gratuities, but if one has a party of 6 or more - and you can’t see the grill from your booth, its a likely possibility. Its’ generally posted either on a menu or a sign.
By NavyMom
September 18, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
Okay I am with Tom - I really thought this was an article my husband would have loved as he adds everything together to get the “real” cost. For example if we go on vacation and fly and stay at a hotel - he adds that plus the rental car plus the entertainment plus every store trip to get the total cost of the vacation. I was expecting that with this article. I must admit if was funny reading some of the comments. As for $2 soft drinks if that were an issue for me I would just order water. If I decide to go out to eat I order what I want because I expect to spend more than if I bought the drink in a 12 pack at the supermarket. If we are tight on cash I stay home and cook.
By Del
September 18, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this
People who sell to the public, no matter what it is, are taught to suggestivelly sell the most expensive items. I work in retail, and I am told to stear the customer to the most costly items that we sell. That is how the establishment makes the most money, the waitress makes the most tips, and the sales associate makes the most commission. It is just common sense. When you visit a resturant, know before you leave home how much money you have to spend on food, and then do not go over that amount. When you shop for clothes, know how much you can afford for each item, and spend that amount only. We have customers who can’t say no to an aggressive sales person, and end up spending more than a thousand dollars in one area of our store for clothes. To have a good meal at a nice resturant, you have to count on spending at least 25 dollars for one meal for one person, plus 2.50 for sodas, and 6.50 for alcohol drinks, plus tips. If you can’t afford that amount, go to a cheaper eatery.
By M'
September 18, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
I used towait tables…most restaurants prefer for the service staff to “sell up”…meaning that they want them to sell the more expensive selections on the menu…I have never agreed with this practice…I believe that you should work within the desired range of the customer…so I would give them price range options in my suggestions…that way they could select accordingly…good service also means not gouging the customer…it means providing adequate service and selections within reason too.
By ron
September 18, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this
Should a gormet and a gormand go to the same restaurant,which one would have the better time? Assuming of course,that the restaurant actually carries the gormet’s favorite, Mongolian left footed sheep’s butter.
By Oops
September 18, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
Lesson learned for me: my mother & I went out to a nice bistro here in ATL several years ago and failed to ask the price of the cocktail & dessert they were pushing that day (no, the prices were not listed on the special menu they had for them). Needless to say we were quite upset by our stupidity when we discovered they were $15 each. I know better than to do something like that; I guess I just didn’t have my brain in full working order that day. Live & learn…
By Oops
September 18, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Lesson learned for me: my mother & I went out to a nice bistro here in ATL several years ago and failed to ask the price of the cocktail & dessert they were pushing that day (no, the prices were not listed on the special menu they had for them). Needless to say we were quite upset by our stupidity when we discovered they were $15 each. I know better than to do something like that; I guess I just didn’t have my brain in full working order that day. Live & learn…
By ATLmom
September 18, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Wow! What a hot topic. I’ve learned the hard way to ask about price of specials when I got a $22 salad for lunch at an Italian restaurant. But I do have to say, when you tell the bartender to pick your wine, you’re kind of asking for it.
As for the gourmand/gourmet comment, I haven’t whipped out my dictionary, but I do think a gourmand is considered someone who loves “good” food. Not just any food.
By nick_paselt
December 25, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
http://www.message_eltmongetric.com/