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Home > Mark Bradley > Archives > 2008 > March > 27 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHawks are better, still not good
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Good news: Mike Bibby has made the Hawks better.
Bad news: He hasn’t made them good.
The Hawks are 10-12 with Bibby (and that’s giving him credit for the resumed “game” against Miami, which they finally won without technically scoring a point during those 51.9 seconds). Of those 10 victories, only three have come against teams with winning records.
The Hawks will almost certainly make the playoffs because their remaining schedule - six of their final 11 games are against losing teams - is soft and nobody below them in the East seems capable of bolting upward. But what then?
They’re locked in as the No. 8 seed, which means they’d play Boston, which means they’d lose in five games if not four. They’d lose not because their starting five can’t compete - with Bibby, their starters are quite good - but because they have little else.
The hidden cost of the Bibby trade was that it defoliated a bench that wasn’t lush to begin with. None of the guys they shipped to Sacramento - Tyronn Lue, Anthony Johnson, Shelden Williams, Lorenzen Wright - are all that great, but at least they were bodies. Now the Hawks’ bench essentially begins and ends with Josh Childress. In the loss at Chicago on Tuesday, every starter worked at least 32 minutes, and Bibby and Joe Johnson worked more than 40.
The Bibby trade was the right move because it gave the Hawks - sorry to bring this up for the 1,000th time - a real point guard and jump-started a team that mightn’t have made the playoffs otherwise, but will simply making the playoffs in the uninspiring East be enough? Enough for this city to get energized over the prospects of a first-round loss? Enough to change our longstanding perception of this flailing franchise?
We have only to look toward the Hawks’ brothers-in-Spirit for the answers. The Thrashers made the playoffs last season after being propped up by a flurry of deadline moves - they even won their division - but were swept by the Rangers in Round 1. Now they’re without a coach and without Marian Hossa and they hold the 28th-best record in a 30-team league.
It seemed like a big deal at the time, the Thrashers finally qualifying for the postseason. In hindsight it seems rather less. Unless something changes with the Hawks - unless, say, Salim Stoudamire turns into Vinnie Johnson and Solomon Jones into John Salley - the same will happen with them. They’ll get in and be gone in the wink of an eye, and we’ll ask ourselves, not for the first time, “Is that all there is?”
Permalink | Comments (36) | Post your comment | Categories: Hawks/NBA
Comments
By vdunkndunk
March 27, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
I think the Hawks will be better next season, but not enough to become an elite team. The good news is that the team seems to be gelling with Bibby now and they’re playing near .500 ball with him, including a bunch of bad losses when he first showed up. And Smith, Childress, Marvin, and Horford will only get better.
But I think we definitely need a new coach, along with some help in the paint. The Hawks will have trouble rising above the 7-8 spot in the playoffs in the next couple of years even if they continue to improve unless we get a much better coach and find a way to get some post scoring and a deeper bench.
By WTC
March 27, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Zaza used to be a decent player. Salim and Solomon haven’t been let off the bench enough to develop into the effective reserves I think they could be. That’s on Zaza and Woody. Billy and Woody have got to go. But more importantly than that, so does this schizo hydra called the Atlanta Spirit Group. And, somewhere a true frontline center has to be acquired somehow. Heck, even a Koncak would make this team better.
By Hawkmeister
March 27, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
I don’t understand why, but something happened to the defense when Bibby was brought in. It doesn’t make sense, because Sheldon and Wright hardly played, which only leaves the rotation of Anthony Johnson and Tyron Lue. Were those two such great on-the-ball defenders compared to Bibby? Perhaps. But one of the trademarks of the Bibby era at Sacremento was the inability to get critical defensive stops - they could always score. And while the Hawks had troble scoring this year, the defense was reasonably stout.
It seems very simple: Bibby in, Johnson & Lue out - Offense up, defense down. Which means no can do regardless of whether they make the playoffs. Can’t advance without defense, unless you’re Phoenix.
The future? I don’t see the room for much improvement with few draft picks coming up unless they do something in free agency. This team as it is seems to be playing about as well as they can play from what I can see.
By Rutuger
March 27, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
The sad thing is that if we do sneak into the playoffs for a little four-game cameo, this franchise will probably find that a sufficient showing to save Woodson and Knight’s jobs—which would be disastrous.
That would be likely the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made (well, other than drafting the crushingly disappointing Marvin Williams).
And the NHL is still around? Who knew!
By chris
March 27, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
You can make the playoffs in the NBA with a sub-500 record, but you shouldn’t be able to call yourself a “playoff team”.
By brian elliott
March 27, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
first priority is a seasoned coach. Next they need a real center who has some bulk to compete with (Dwight and Shag & others of size & strength). I think if these things are addressed they will be a better team. Another question will arise in Josh Smith, staying or going? Where does that leave the team and what options are available if he leaves? I think a Jeff Van Gundy would do well with this team. No more inexpensive rookie coaches….
By Dan
March 27, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Next year’s Hawks lineup will be interesting. There is no draft pick this year, unless they make a trade of some sort. And, they still have to resign Josh Smith and Josh Childress. After the resignings, they have to add another piece somewhere.
Mark, I don’t think this team will go the way of the Thrashers. Assuming they resign Smith and Chills, this lineup will be in its 4th year together and have playoff games (I hope!) under their belt. Plus, it will have Bibby for a full year and some other new player (again, I hope!).
So, don’t compare them to the Thrashers. If the Hawks make the playoffs this year and take care of business in the offseason, they will be fine.
You just aren’t happy unless you rip this team. I understand it is warrented more often than not, but you go overboard.
By Vick Supporter
March 27, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Atlanta fans are always complaining. You should be glad that you have a team
By J-MANN
March 27, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
The future is bright for the hawks. your blind if you don’t see that.Next year jj will still be our leading scorer—even harder to stop due to the rapidly increasing talents of horford, who will be averaging 15-17 points a game and continue killing on the boards, bibby will average 15 points and contiue his clutch shooting, ac law will begin seeing the game better and will improve his shooting and assits, chill will stay about the same, solomon will improve his moves around the basket, add muscle over the summer, and will team up w/ josh smith to make one of the best shot-blocking tandems in the leauge. Josh S. will continue to improve his shot consistency and contiue his brilliant shot blocking. We will trade marvin and salim and second round pick for a veteran small forward w/ good offense and great defense skills. We won’t need another brillant scorer w/ jj, bibby, horford, smith, and chill, ac law taking most of the shots. Just someone who can hit the open shot and play great defense. We need to find a way to start horford, smith, and jones in the front court next year. Trade marvin and salim asap!
By Darrell
March 27, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Maybe folks can worry about all the possible transactions whenever the season’s over, until then lets win some more games!
By Warren Haynes For President
March 27, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Of course making the playoffs is important. If they get swept by Boston (ala Thrashers 2007)it takes some of the positive momentum out of it. However, if they get hot at the end of the year and force the series to 6 or 7 games that would give the Hawks and their fans great momentum heading into next year. You never know what could happen once you get into a tournament (UGA basketball 2008).
By Drew
March 27, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
The Hawks have the potential to be a great team. This is clearly evident in some moments of great play. Their problem is their youth, which brings about inconsistency. Hawks really need a veteran big man that can bring added leadership and help keep the young guys focussed.
By Eddie
March 27, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Forgeting past mistakes and focusing on this season and next year is the key. People need to quit complaining about the past. If the fans want to see change, and make a statement to the ownership of who to draft. Forget about free agents, because there are not players out there that WANT to come to Hawks, if they can get the same money form any other team with a more recent success or appear to be on the rise (i.e. any playoff team from the past two seasons + the hornets). Lets be heard about who this team should draft this summer (any PG or SG).
By Chris
March 27, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
man, for once i agree with most of the posts on the ajc site.
By Chris
March 27, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
man, for once i agree with most of the posts on the ajc site.
By GT80
March 27, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
It all comes down to one thing for the Hawks…coaching. I was listening to the pre-game last night and they kept harping about how the Hawks never seem to be able to come out of a timeout and get a decent shot or make a good defensive stand. And how they continually come out in the 3rd quarter and have a lull. It was described as a lack of focus. That’s really called a lack of coaching.
Look at Philly and what they’ve done with a roster that cannot be considered better than the Hawks. The reason is they have a coach who knows what he’s doing.
It’s too bad we also seem to have an ownership group that is paralyzed.
And you are right Eddie. We can’t keep thinking about what we’ve missed out on with squandered draft picks. That will just drive you crazy.
By Ced Ced
March 27, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Woody NEEDS to play more of our bench. Its an ABSOLUTE MUST!!! The starters dont get enough breathers in games, so if and when we get in the playoffs their goin to be burnt out. And the thing I dont understand is that Solomon and the new kid we picked up are not that bad, especially the new kid. He can score and he has a little something to his game. when the offense is struggling he should get some time to see if he can add something, and the few times he has been in he does. Salim is a little selfish sometimes when he’s in, but he can produce. Spreading the minutes around efficiently has to happen, for the Hawks to be as good as they can be.
By D Ole Hoops Coach
March 27, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
I think that there is a good core to work with here as long as they keep Chils and Josh Smith.
They need to look for every opportunity to run, but when they have to play half-court the sets need to change. Josh Smith needs gets most of his touches posting up on the block. From there he can use his strength, quickness, footwork, and jumping ability to become an inside force. This would also cut down on the times that he makes bad decisions or is forced to take last second shots from the perimeter, which would be better taken by JJ, Bibby, or Marvin. It would also open up the floor for these shooters, as Josh would be likely to start commanding double teams when he got the ball.
At the same time, Horford could be used more from the elbow or that distance from the basket, as well as in the high pick and roll. This would take advantage of his ability to see the floor and pass, as well as his ability to hit 10 to 17 foot jump shots. This would also open up the baseline more for Chills, Marvin, and Josh to use their athletic ability and move without the ball.
In addition to keeping the Joshes, it is extremely important that they sign a free agent who is a true Center who can at least come off the bench and play D against other true Centers for 15 to 20 minutes a game.
I think Acie will develop into a good 3rd guard, so along with Chils they should be OK there benchwise, but it would be good to add one more guy there for injuries. I am not sold on Salim due to his lack of athleticism, but if they do keep him I think he could be used in a Freddy “Downtown” Brown role (for you other old guys) to be an offensive spark off the bench.
One way or another they have to cut down JJ’s minutes so that he is not exhausted by this point in the season. I think what he has done the last couple of weeks is amazing when you think of all the minutes he has and continues to play. But each year, it will be harder for him to keep this up.
By fudd21
March 27, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
JMANN and Eddie The Hawks don’t have any draft picks this coming year. No first round no second round. If you gonna post, at least know what you talking about!
By Jackie Moon
March 27, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
my thoughts exactly fudd21
By D Wayne
March 27, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
I don’t quite understand this media love affair with Bibby. Of course announcer Bob Rathbun loves and worships every Hawk player—he’s nothing but a paid shill for the team—but even the real media seems to feel Bibby has elevated the team’s play.
Have you seen his stats? Very unremarkable. The 10-12 record with him is probably about the same one they’d have without him.
By Najeh Davenpoop
March 27, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
You know what they say about giving a blind man a Ferrari.
You’re right, Bibby has made them better, but they’re still not good. Until they fire Woodson, they will not be good.
On paper, Boston’s depth is no better than Atlanta’s (obviously their best players are a lot better than Atlanta’s, that goes without saying). Speaks to their coaching staff how they have been able to get such important contributions out of late 1st-round and 2nd-round afterthoughts like Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Kendrick Perkins and Tony Allen, while the Hawks have been unable to do anything with Salim Stoudamire, Solomon Jones, and yeah even Zaza.
By Submariner683
March 27, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
Hey Vick Fan,
Yes Atlanta fans complain a lot. Can you blame them? The Hawks have been completely horrible for the last 10 years. Even when they were decent between 85-99, they never made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs.
The Falcons have NEVER had consecutive winning seasons. They’ve had what, 6 playoff appearences in the last 28 seasons? When they’ve had a winning record, at least they’ve made the playoffs every time. But 6-22 is not very great for fans. I know I’m usually pretty frustrated come October every season.
Thrashers, no longer an expansion team, have had one 4 and out playoff appearance.
The Braves, well, very nice run, but one World Series victory. And when I was a kid in the 80s they were laugable between 85-90.
If you compare Atlanta to the other cities which have the 4 major sports franchises, they have to come in dead last.
It’s pretty hard to be an Atlanta fan. Every team is consistenly bad, and the city has ONE championship to it’s name in how many seasons?
It would be nice to have Boston’s problems right now, I tell ya.
By devin
March 27, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
HAWKS SUCKS… HOW CAN YOU GUYS SAY THAT THE HAWKS ARE GETTING BETTER??? lOOK AT ALL THEIR RECENT WINS…….. CLIPPERS, KNICKS, MIAMI ETC. ALL LOTTERY TEAM CANDIDATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED TO FACE THE TRUTH…HAWKS SUCKS….FIRE WOODY & KNIGHT AND HIRE A REALL COACH & GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE NOT NIQUE!!!! HE IS A MASCOT& JUST THEIR TO COLLECT HIS PENSION…. DOES HE EVEN OWN A HOME??????????????
By Hawksville Resident
March 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Mark, are you taking T Moore’s place as the mayor of Glass half emptyville…you say only make the playoffs like we’re perennial playoff powers. We haven’t made the playoffs in 8 YEARS! Is it wrong for us fans to be excited about bringing the NBA playoffs back to the A? I swear it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t with your column? If you don’t make the playoffs then the longest in the NBA continues and the team sucks. If you do make the playoffs, but get beat by the best team record wise in the NBA, the team sucks. Basically it’s a no win situation which is what I feel after having read this BS!
By Dan
March 27, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
devin,
You should also include Orlando to your list, right? They suck? What about the win in Washington? They suck, too?
Come on….try actually watching the games before you call everyone out.
By JM
March 27, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
We know the Hawks will get trashed by the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs, if we make it. But that’s not the point. This season was never about winning a championship. It was about ending the postseason drought and bringing some respectability back to the franchise. Making the playoffs and losing in the first round would represent acceptable progress.
Next year, though, there’s absolutely no reason we shouldn’t take that next step and become one of the three or four top teams in the East. No, we’re not going to get to the level of the C’s or Pistons, but we need to blow by the likes of Washington, Toronto and Philly.
How many teams in the NBA have a starting five as good as Horford, Smoove, Marvin, JJ and Bibby? Not many. How many teams have two lottery picks (Chills and Acie) coming off the bench? I’d bet even fewer.
I’m not a fan of Woody’s coaching ability and I feel this team should be well over .500 in the East. However, if he gets us to the playoffs I can live with him getting another year. But with the young guns being a year older and a full season from Bibby, just getting there isn’t going to be enough in ‘09. This team should be a bonafide contender in the East. There’s no reason they shouldn’t.
By Barry
March 27, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Hey Y’all:
Bradley, you STINK!!! There you go with your negative commentary about our young and coming local teams. Bibby has not even been for nearly a month and you are judging the development of the team with him.. These Hawks are real good with him. The proble though is not Bibby. The proble is the inconsistancy in play calling and style by the coach. The team need to be running every time they get. Bibby needs to given that opprtunity and not be held back by the Coach. I believe Woodson is slowly understanding that but he is not going to have enough time by slowing this bunch down and not coaching aggresively on the court. He needs to have more slashing and dashing to the hoop in order to get shots and/or draw fouls on the opponent. This team is capable of doing anything it wants with the exception of the center position. Teams are going to exploit us in the middle because we do not have a solid center in there. We have a great point guard in Bibby. Now it is time for us to work on getting a stopper in the middle. After that we are set for the ride. However in the interim, we need to play spped ball throughout the whole game and use our bench more. If we do this we will upset a lot of teams come the playoffs, when we get therr
LET’s GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a SECRET from a DIE HARD LOCAL HAWK FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way Bradley, enjoy the process of the Hawks becoming a contender. Stop your negative comments in the AJC sports pages about our local sports teams.
SEE YOU AT PHILLIPS!!!!
Ringold
By koolaidkid916
March 27, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
I don’t care what you all say about him, but I love Mike “Always Hurt” Bibby. Mike “No D” Bibby is awesome. Mike “No Emotion” Bibby will be the savior of this Hawks Team.
—Rack Me… OUT!
By Chris G
March 27, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Even Woody, could not keep us from winning with a true BIG MAN!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
By anphill2
March 27, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Bradley. I am very impressed with your level of knowledge of Hockey.
I was hoping you could elaborate on the “hidden-cost” of giving up the 4 players?…..
As true Hawks fans, why are we subjected to such idiocracy in our local media?
A column/blog is good when you have a PURPOSE.
By mcRLY?
March 28, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Hawks make a serious run at the playoffs, will probably get in with one of the youngest teams in the NBA and will do so for the first time in what, almost 10 years, and an AJC columnist kicks them for it? YAWN. You guys are becoming SOOOO predictable. Here, here’s a box of tissue so you can cry for all the out-of-work doctors on the day we finally cure cancer. We all know the situation here. I mean, we’re all reading the AJC sports page to get the latest on our Hawks, so yeah we’re all semi-informed and sort of cool with our expectations and most of us aren’t reveling in delusional thoughts of sweeping the Celtics in 4 off of Zaza’s miracle 3 from half court. But’s it’s the playoffs, and it’s the HAWKS, and every sports fan knows anything CAN happen in the playoffs. Haven’t you seen the commercials? It’s columns like this that drive down the love so much that we have a half-empty Phillips Arena on playoff day and then you turn around and chastise us for how crappy we Atlanta fans look on National TV. Jerk. Sry, I usually like your stuff, and should be above name-calling. That was ‘Jerkesque.’ (no, it’s not Carribean BBQ, it’s pronounced JERK-ESK.’) What, all those fancy diplomas on the wall and you never took ‘WAG THE DOG 101?’ Come on dude, you know you want to. I’m emailing you some virtual pom-poms Bradley, and I’m expecting you to get with the program forthwith. Later bros.
By Hoosier
March 28, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Bradley, like everyone has been telling you, leave the basketball to Sekou and anyone else.
This team is young, and full of potential studs, that will mature. They need playoff experience anyway they can get it. So yes, a four and out will be just fine!
Thanks for your concern though Bradley. Aren’t you suppose to be covering Church League Softball?
By stanley sisson
March 30, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
the HAWKS makes the PLAYOFFS because of one reason MIKE BIBBY plain and simple. no coaching involved,because we dont have one.without the trade no playoffs.
By C. Collins
March 30, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Bradley: Another non-athletic writer who has never been good enough to play any sport(even golf) that has to communicate the negative to make himself seem smart or to keep a job…get a life…….However the hawks do have some glaring holes, but they are decent and would be alot better with the right coach. Marvin Williams, wow the scout that sold you on this guy should be fired first, even before Billy or Woody, they both need to go also but get rid of that scout first….lol, this guy should be a second or third person off the bench, not a starter…Woody getting paid millions to be stupid, my son who is 11 sees that if your guys log all these mins i.e. jj,mb,js, they get tired and tired legs will not get you a win in the playoffs, can’t he see that, or am i just stupid…
By johnny
April 3, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Bradley, you better not be all on the Hawks junk for the next decade when this young extremely talented core really starts to bear fruit.
This is just the tip of the iceberg baby.
By next year after a playoff berth showing them they belong and another year of maturation and growth as a unit they will be winning on the road more and everything, and with a new coach will do big things.
And that is just the start. 2nd youngest team in the NBA, and damn good and EXTREMELY talented.
Al Horford- future 20/10 allstar power forward, the anchor.
Josh Smith- unique talent, future DPOY and so exciting to watch
JJ- 26 years old and already the stud franchise player and leader
Marvin- Midrange extroardinaire, world-class athlete, pure shooter at the small forward that is just scratching surface of potential
Chillz- Best young 6th man in the game, can do it all at a number of positions. Efficiency personified, world-class athlete.
Bibby- The maestro, the leader, the experienced cold-blooded animal in the clutch at 29 years old… the MF’ing GENERAL
Acie- future general.
Just wait til they get a center so Marvin moves to the bench at 6th man and bolsters that up, and Horford can get to the 4 and tear it up for real………
Just wait til they get a great coach and tear it up BIGTIME……..
So hate now, but dont expect to enjoy all the hating long. Because those days are about to be long gone.
Yours truly- True Hawks fan FOR LIFE through the bad and the good.