By Jeff

November 8, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Phil:

1) Your link is off… there is an extra I after the .asp that is throwing off the link. (Still goes to the snopes site, but to an error screen.)

2) While I hadn’t heard about this specific controversy, I was in Walmart just the other night browsing books (I’m about to finish Wheel of Darkness within the hour), when T saw the book and began commenting about it being anti-God, saying she would NEVER let our kids read it (yet she LOVES Harry Potter, go figure).

3) My own reaction to it is that I would feel it would rate on my ‘teens or higher only’ type label within the system that I spoke of a month or so ago. I personally don’t feel that young children should be exposed to it, but I would have no problems with an adult or mature teen reading it.

As for the movie, it doesn’t strike me as something I would generally watch anyway, so I more than likely will not see it due to lack of interest rather than any real philosophical disagreements.

Oh, BTW: Myspace is advertising it along the edges of the page, in similar fashion as they do other upcoming movies. Just FYI on that one.

By FCM

November 8, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

The art work and ads do seem to be geared toward the children. I am sure that many parents will just think…OK its a “Disneyesque” film…and take their kids. However, having read the controversy, I will probably review it indepth and then make a decision. Based on what I have read, my gut says “Not on my watch”….

By FCM

November 8, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

16 May 2008 is the opening of Prince Caspian in theatre. To bad Disney cannot up the out date. It would be sort of a counter balance of the ideas presented.

By Kat

November 8, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

I’m a public library administrator, and was a children’s librarian for 10 years before moving into administration. This warning has shown up in my inbox, and at first I had to laugh. Anyone who would send a censorship email to a public librarian obviously doesn’t understand what we do!

What strikes me as really ironic, though, is that these book have been on library shelves for years. They are very popular with all ages. Many books circulate well when they are new, but readership drops off after a few months. This series, though, has circulated steadily. The Golden Compass was published in 1996; I just checked, and about half of our copies are checked out right now. That’s not bad for an 11-year old book.

So my question to the protesters is, where have you been for the last 11 years? Why wait until the movie to find a problem with the books? Could it be because you don’t really know what’s on your library shelves until a movie adaptation brings it to the forefront? That just strikes me as a protest of convenience. You don’t know what your library has or what kids are reading, but if someone makes it easy for you by allowing you to hit “forward” on an email, suddenly you are all concerned about getting the word out. You didn’t have to do any research, examine the books yourself, or even take a few minutes to compose an email in your own words. Just one click of the mouse and you’re an activist!

I just think that everyone should read what they want, watch what they want, and mind their own business. It insults my intelligence when people take it upon themselves to send me dire warnings about books and movies, because the implication is that I can’t think for myself and need them to save me from this insidious danger. Give me a break!

By Barbara

November 8, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Kat,

No protests over the last 11 years because the God-Squad doesn’t read anything that’s not pushed from the pulpit. They cannot think for themselves and rely on their “church” to alert them to “new” evils out to drag their children to hell. That’s usually followed by a new pledge to help their leader “fight the evil!”

Translation: Preacher’s wife needs a new sofa.

Most of these fool’s idea of good parenting is dinner at Hardee’s and “only” four hours of TV a night.

It’s okay though. Most of their kids end up pregnant and in rehab.

By Jeff

November 8, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Barbara:

Point of order, dear friend:

I am a member of your so-called ‘God Squad’, yet I read ANYTHING that strikes my fancy.

Including books dealing in Eastern Mysticism and grisly murders (ala the book I finished this morning, Preston/Child’s Wheel of Darkness), books dealing in revenge, torture, drugs, sex, and extreme violence (ala the infamous Without Remorse), and a whole slew of other things. Heck, even the relatively ‘tame’ Sparks books I read often have premarital sex in them! (Matter of fact, I seem to remember EVERY Sparks book having a sex scene in it, though I could be wrong on that regard, particularly due to the ages of the characters in A Walk to Remember.)

Oh, and if you really want a scene of Roman-era debauchery in the modern world, check out what happens in the middle of the Pacific in Steve Alten’s Meg: Primal Waters. A satisfying conclusion to the Meg trilogy, other than the scene at the very end which sets up a fourth Meg book. (I like my trilogies to end clean.)

By V for Vendetta

November 8, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

(sigh)

Why do the religious in our society have to make it so easy? This is an asinine observation, at best. I have not personally read the trilogy — I’m not a big fan of the fantasy genre — but the thought of limiting ANYTHING because of its religious message sickens me. What you’ll notice, dear readers, is that the people who defy the Religious Right are typically the type of people that feel we should be allowed to read anything we want. Yes, of course, that includes people of a deeply religious persuasion. Who am I to tell them what they can or can NOT read?

However, when the tables are turned, it is the religious right and holy-rollers that want to dictate what is acceptable in society and what is not. Witness the loony tunes mother in Loganville. Witness the arguments over this series. Why do they not see the hypocracy in their message? How can you build a free and open society when you want to censor anything that doesn’t agree with YOUR message that YOUR god has given YOU?

Pathetic. There is no other word for it. I’ve said it many times to my like-minded friends: throughout history, there has been no greater evil in this world than organized religion. I suggest all of you nuts out there pick up a copy of Ayn Rand’s Anthem, Farrenheit 451, or, ironically, read or watch V for Vendetta. Open your eyes.

By whatmeworry

November 8, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

I am a firm believer in allowing anyone to read/watch anything they wish, without interference from government, religion or TV and Movie critics. Personally, I will not take my child to see this movie nor will I permit him to read these books. Phillip Fulmer is a professed atheist. I do not share his values and do no wish to enrich him. If you want your children to read the books and see the movie that is certainly your right. I’m glad we live in a society where we have choices. I think the anti- campaign could give the movie a box office boost. Still, I’m glad for the warning!

By Troglodyke

November 8, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Sigh. You gotta be kidding me. Oh, wait—we live in a state that is plagued by drought and whose governor thinks praying for rain will fix it.

The religious people know that the only way to keep their flocks bulging is to indoctrinate young children from an early age. They see firsthand how kids start to question religion as they age (perfectly normal), and they fret and sputter about anything that might make indoctrinating kids harder.

It’s really child abuse, in a way. “Believe in this invisible god, or you’ll go to hell.”

Try to censor any of their precious movies or books, and they scream that they are being persecuted. Hypocrisy, thy name is, and has always been, religion.

By Lisa

November 8, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

I have had this e-mail show up in my in-box and I have forwarded it on to my friends with children. I usually don’t read too much into e-mails like this, but this one did disturb me. It is marketed as a children’s movie and parents not aware of the background will take there children to see this. Should the movie be banned or boycotted? No, that’s silly. If you don’t want to see it, than don’t go. I don’t like Nicole Kidman, so that is enough to keep me away.

By jeff1

November 8, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Barbara, just to elighten you, I cant stand to see people post comments with no basis in fact. Here is the truth. It has been shown in study after study ( the last one I saw i read about in this paper) that the children of religious parents who grow up religious are much more well adjusted and happy than the non-religious. They also on average achieve much higher education and career heights. It is the non-religious children have much higher rates of all kinds of problems. This is just fact.

By jeff1

November 8, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Barbara, just to elighten you, I cant stand to see people post comments with no basis in fact. Here is the truth. It has been shown in study after study ( the last one I saw i read about in this paper) that the children of religious parents who grow up religious are much more well adjusted and happy than the non-religious. They also on average achieve much higher education and career heights. It is the non-religious children have much higher rates of all kinds of problems. This is just fact.

By Phil Kloer

November 8, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Jeff: Thanks for alerting me to the bad link. I fixed it.

To all: I enjoy spirited debate, and like to see it on this blog. But let’s remember these are real people we are addressing in our comments and replies, and maybe try to use a tone we would use if we were addressing them face to face in our living rooms.

By V for Vendetta

November 8, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

jeff1 -

What is your definition of “well-adjusted?” Blind to the scientific grandeur of the world? Faithful sheep? Living hypocrit? Person who judges others who are not like him?

You can’t point to all the stats you want — stats can show you ANYTHING with clever data manipulation — but the bottom line is what you’re saying is a load of bunk. A faith-based way of thinking closes your mind to many of the wonderful things this world has to offer. It saddens me that someone like Lisa will keep her kids from seeing something because she doesn’t agree with the message. Too bad her kids will never get to decide for themselves.

No, I prefer my kids to be open-minded and love everyone for who they are. Allow people to act and do as they please, as long as they don’t infringe on your rights. Too bad so many “religious” people can’t seem to figure that out; they’re too busy trying to tell us what to read, what to watch, and who is going to hell.

Sorry, I guess I am just too maladjusted.

By sm

November 8, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

More than anything, this controversy will increase the take at the box office, and increase viewer ship. All you religious kooks ever do is bring more publicity to things like this and it always backfires in your face.

By Kat

November 8, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

There’s a difference between monitoring what your children read/watch, and monitoring what other people’s children read/watch. That is the line between parenting and censorship. As a parent it is my responsiblity to be aware of what my children read, but if someone else tries to control what my children can and can’t read, they’ve crossed that line. I encourage parents to be aware of their children’s reading choices, and if those choices do not mesh with their personal values, by all means prohibit your child from reading it. Just please don’t appoint yourself the moral guardian of other people’s children.

Without meaning to fan the flames though, it is curious that it’s often religious conservatives wanting to ban books. In 13 years of library work, I’ve never once had an atheist ask me to remove the Bible from the shelves, or the works of CS Lewis, or Jan Karon.

By the way, I don’t like labels, but I am living proof that you can be a Southern Baptist and still believe in intellectual freedom. :)

By AlohaVampire

November 8, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

GOD IS AN IMAGINARY FRIEND FOR GROWN UPS

RELIGION IS A CRUTCH FOR WEAK MINDED PEOPLE

SCIENCE IS A LIE… YOU MUST HAVE FAITH ???

I’ll bet Creflo Dollar and Eddie Long are making money on this book too !

By Baya

November 8, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

I read these books and found them entertaining and enjoyable. I also found them to be no more directly slanderous toward the Christian religion than other Fantasy genre books.

Even so, I’d like to point out the fact that just because a person is not of the Christian faith, does not mean their values and morals are automatically suspect. Let’s go tell the Dalai Lama that we won’t read his books anymore because he’s not a Christian. There are a plethora of wonderful human qualities portrayed by the characters in the books that cross all lines of religion, and boil down to just plain humanity; good and bad.

This world is an enormous place and if you fear that your children won’t remain faithful to your religion after watching one movie, or reading one author’s make-believe account of nonexistent people, then it sounds to me as if the foundation you’re creating for them is already shaky. Possibly time to look to the reasons behind the anxiety felt over exposure to something like this.

“I write books about killing God” is tantamount to saying “I write books about make-believe”, so what are you worried about?

By reeves

November 8, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Why don’t all you Christian morons sit around and pray for the movie to burn up in the projectors.

Then you can blame satan when it doesn’t work.

It’s amazing in this day and age we still have to deal with people who are this stupid.

By Kat

November 8, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Baya, you’re a breath of fresh air.

By julie

November 8, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

I am not seeing that this email warning is trying to ban either the books or the movie. It is message to give parents the opportunity to check out what their children may be exposed to. As parents, we are responsible for bringing up our own children the way we see fit. If you don’t mind your children reading/watching God being killed then go to the movie or read the book. If you do not want your children to see/read this, then don’t let them. Either way stop bashing the Christians. It makes your arguments seem less valid when you resort to meanness.

By JW

November 8, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Why would it sadden anyone when a person decides to protect their children from what they believe to be the wrong message? Young children can’t and shouldn’t decided for themselves, hence the need for a little thing called parenting.

I’ve seen the words censorship and banning used several times by bloggers, but it is not mentioned in the email we are discussing. I think the email was intended as a warning to those who aren’t aware of the theme of this movie. You can take the information, do your own research and decide for yourself whether or not this is something you want your kids to see.

By erinanne

November 8, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Two “religious” conversations in two days? I thought we were talking about books.

Sigh.

I know- the spread of ideas seems contradictory to the spread of religion, but really, does it have to be? Can’t we teach our children to read critically? Is it too improbable to think that if we raise our children to come to us when they have questions about something that they read or see that they will? Do we have that little faith in the values that we are instilling in our own children?

I am a Christian, after growing up in an agnostic household and being allowed to read anything I wanted. It was not a decision that I made lightly, nor is it one that I would turn my back on just because a fiction book gave me reason to search myself and question why I believe what I do.

I haven’t read the His Dark Materials trilogy, not because I think it is evil, but because I don’t, as a general rule, enjoy fantasy. I’ve tried to read The Golden Compass but could never make it past more than the third or fourth page.

Just like The Da Vinci Code, I’m sure this movie will be a fun fictional escape, and nothing more.

By Kat

November 8, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

My point is that people who forward such email warnings don’t even realize how condescending they’re being. The very act of forward it presumes that I’m not capable of knowing and evaluating what my children are reading and watching, or that I won’t understand the significance of it.

By Baya

November 8, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Hi Julie,

From your quote “If you don’t mind your children reading/watching God being killed then go to the movie or read the book. If you do not want your children to see/read this, then don’t let them.” I gather you have been convinced by the email that the books are all about killing God rather than about a young girl’s adventures through a fantasy landscape to save the existence of the universe from the machinations of an evil and misguided man.

I would encourage you to follow up with some research into the actual storyline of the books. The summary given in the email comes about as close to the real story as I do to Brittany Spears. We’re both blonde, but that’s about it.

I see the email as an alarmist attempt to frighten the unwary into premature rejection of a harmlessly entertaining movie based on books that are more of the same.

By Kat

November 8, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Well, from now on anyone who forwards this email to me will get the following reply:

Have you seen the movie? Have you read the books? What parts of the books do you find objectionable (please provide quotes and pages numbers so I can be sure exactly what you’re talking about). If you haven’t read the books, please tell me where you got the information you sent me. Do you know who wrote it? Did he/she read the books? What are his/her credentials for writing on this subject? Are you aware of any professional reviews of this series?

If a single person can identify the original author of the email, I will take it seriously. Otherwise, I consider frowarding emails to be the laziest form of activism, barely short of doing nothing at all.

By julie

November 8, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Hi Baya, The point I was trying to make is that no matter the content of a book, movie, video game, etc. we as parents are the deciding factor in our children’s lives as to what they ingest into their minds,bodies and spirits. JW said it well. Our children need to be parented by their parents and as parents we should make it our priority to know what is best for them. I apologize for not being more clear on that point.

By Jamie

November 8, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

I received the email. We won’t be going to the movie.

Before I read any “you are so closed - minded” nonsense - This is fantasy - I don’t think we will be missing anything pertinent or be at a loss the rest of our lives for missing it.

There is a difference between sheltering your children and selecting what they are exposed to.

There is also a difference in acknowledging the existences of other beliefs and participating in them.

Like - my daughter knows cigarettes exist but she doesn’t have to buy or smoke them to prove it.

I really dislike movies geared for children that have a double entendre -whatever happen to simple, wholesome entertainment?

By jason smith

November 8, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Yes, according to you religious nuts and reductionists, if you support Bush, then you must believe God advocates destroying the Earth, attacking other religious groups, and dominating everybody else who opposes us for attacking their countrie(s) needlessly…what a kind, loving Creator….hallelujah!!!

Those damn Iraqis….they all “hate our freedoms”. Meanwhile we don’t have any left….except go to church, so by process of elimination, that is your only right left…good things most Americans are Christian…they need to all sign up immediately and support the crusade….if you destroy the earth, do you still go to heaven?…is your preacher basically advocating the “end of times” actually hoping for it…this is ludicrous…who cares, right???if you are one of “the chosen few”…

What a load of bs…..get a brain or grow a pair and go fight those innocent people of other faiths…and then say they “don’t like democracy” or “hate God” or some other banal idiotic thought….make sure you fly your American flag on your SUV even though you have no idea what being a democracy means….maybe Musharraff does according to Bush…

Isn’t it ironic three Rep. governors have to fight over water….maybe this is divine intervention or karma, depending on your religion, since republicans hate the environment…and have proven it over and over…fred thompson even supports drilling for oil in the everglades…

Maybe God will rescue you while you keep up your sprawl, mcmansions, wasting your resources, and materialistic lifestyle…better pray harder….instead of actually doing anything productive…

By Faith

November 8, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

I personally believe it is up to parents to be open with their children and leave the doors open for discussion. If you have a child who is of the age to understand what is being relayed in these books/movies then I believe it could be an opportunity to discuss what you and your child believe to be valid/invalid in what is read or seen. As a Christian parent, I don’t believe Christianity is about restricting or “censoring” what my child is exposed to, after all, what we block them from is often, what they will be interested in most. I believe it is about loving and accepting and letting them make their own decisions and potentially their own mistakes. I personally would see the movie/read the books first to make sure I was aware of what they were ingesting.
It hurts me as a person to see the hatred that some people have against Christians and the hatred that some Christians have against people they don’t understand.

By jason smith

November 8, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

I remember my local library banning harry potter when I lived in the South, and look how successful that campaign was!!! JK Rowling is now the richest women in England and one of the richest in the world…..never did find out what was so objectionable for kids to use their imagination…

I thought good fighting evil is in basically every book, movie, even the Bible…anyway these religious zealots never had to retract any of their inane banter…and inflammatory comments….their god does not express forgiveness, or compassion…

Do not use God for your self-centeredness, that is blasphemy and why modern-day Christianity is a right-wing scam….when you destroy the world’s environment, so envir. refugees HAVE to come here to our moderate climate, then we just build a wall and say it is to protect our freedom or way of life or democracy…

We are a police state and a theocracy under Bush…

Believing in God means not voting for or supporting Bush policies, since he is distorting your faith…unless you are brainwashed by all his lies, then you just turn off anything which might shatter your delusions….or you are already a billionaire and can benefit economically by his short-sighted policies….then you are as evil as Bush is…and should not call yourself a Christian….nothing he has ever said was the truth…or even close….I don’t care if you think he is fed false info. like so many apologists say, he is still unfortunately the prez, and congress apparently needs to grow a pair….

By Jeff

November 8, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Phil:

Look at it this way:

At least you’re attracting people to the blog we haven’t seen before! :P

By Truth

November 8, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Jamie stated: “I really dislike movies geared for children that have a double entendre -whatever happen to simple, wholesome entertainment?”

There is hardly a book or movie that does not have a double meaning. It’s more probable that you just didn’t know about it.

For example, the Wizard of Oz was about the debate over a monetary standard, and had multiple references to politics. Disney movies throughout the ages have hidden messages, sometimes even visual sexual and violent cels.

Looks like many of you that boycott books need to pick a few up - the 700 Club and Fox News don’t count as educating.

By Tara

November 8, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Hi all: I’ll stay away from the issue of censorship because many have said what I would say (and better). Instead, I’d like to comment on the novels and whether they are anti-religon. I’ve read this series a number of times over the years, and to say they are anti-religion is a knee-jerk response that simplifies certain plot points in their most derivative, base forms.

1) The children set out, and succeed, at killing God.

Incorrect: The children of the novels, Will and Lyra, set out to save Lyra’s best friend Roger. When Lyra is put in danger by an imposter god, her mother kills the imposter god to protect her. Later, Will and Lyra try to protect the real God (an angel they call the Authority, who isn’t God at all but the first being) during a battle between the Authority’s supporters and rebels, but they do not succeed and the Authority dies due to his fragility and old age. It is terribly sad, and written that way.

2) The Catholic Church is portrayed as evil:

Incorrect: Lyra does not live in our world. The church in her world is the government and it has become corrupt and perverted over time. In her world, her church commits horrible crimes against children in the name of God. In actions and character, this group more resembles the Taliban than the Catholic church, and as such, the novels are more critical of radical groups who rationalize unspeakable behaviour like murder with their religious beliefs. We do see our world in the novels, and by all accounts and appearances, the Catholic church is no different than how we know it here.

With that said, the novels are not pro-religion. In no way am I trying to claim that they are. However, the answer to the question, “Are they anti-religion?” is not an easy one to answer, and Snopes has it wrong to state conclusively that they are because readers can come to any number of wildly different conclusions. His Dark Materials is, on a story-level, exciting, engaging, deeply inventive, highly mystical — and without a doubt, complicated and challenging. They espout the same Christian values you’ll find in Narnia, like love, compassion, courage and loyalty. Just because they are a telling of creation where there was never an actual God doesn’t mean it is an outright “attack” on Christianity. I am not an atheist, but I am uncomfortable with the notion that atheism is somehow in and of itself an attack on belief in a higher power. When did those things become synonymous?

If anything, Pullman pleads a case for atheism in his novels. That’s not a bit different than what Lewis did for Christianity with the Narnia books, no matter how loud the Catholic League screams differently. And to boycott the film is laughable when New Line has already exerted enough studio muscle to ensure the more controversial religious elements of the film’s plot are watered down.

By FCM

November 8, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Farrenheit 451 is one of my favorite books. My shelf contains a great many books…

I would put myself on the ‘God Squad’ side of an argument.

I would not send the email out unless I had read the book and agreed with it. My concern is that it could be marketed to young minds without their parents (hopefully their moral compass at that age) being fully aware of any undertone message. I would say the same thing of taking a child to see Narnia (although I have actually read CS Lewis’ series)—if your stead fast against Christ centered teaching then Narnia may not be what you want to see.

As far as not being sure what is on the library shelf—-just how many new books do you put out each week? I can read maybe 3-5 a week if I am lucky. No possible way I could know about all of them unless someome (friends, family, this blog, NY Times, Oprah, Christian Right, Crazy Lady in Gwinnett, etc) shines a light on them.

I think an informed public will make the right choices…Just like the blog yesterday has me interested in that book, this one has me interested in looking into this one—so I can decide if its ok for my kids—-but what I read so far has me thinking probably not.

Unfortunately not all parents will bother to check into the movie their children are watching. Good parenting doesn’t mean limiting V’s (or anyone elses) right to read/watch something.

By BiteMe

November 8, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

OH, WHERE IS ALEXIS WHEN WE NEED HER TO WIGGLE HERSELF IN HERE SOMEHOW TO CHANGE THIS TO AN ANTI-GAY COMMENTARY???

By Jeff

November 8, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Tara:

Based on your description of the “imposter God” vs the “Authority” battles, I could make a case based on Christian thought that this is indeed a case of the “imposter God” being the equivalent of the True God and the “Authority” as being Satan himself. Thus, with the “Authority” forces winning and the “imposter God” being killed, you have in fact promoted not just atheism and/ or killing God, but indeed worship of Satan as well.

By lovelyliz

November 8, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Banning children’s books?

Get A Life

By Tara

November 8, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff: Out of curiosity, have you read the books?

By Angela

November 8, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Well some of these comments are scary. I am not a religous person because religion is nothing but a bunch of laws defined by hypocrites. However I do believe in God and I do go to Church and believe in developing my realtionship with him for myself and no one else. I will not allow my young children to watch this and I do appreciate it being brought to my attention. Life is about balance. I do not want to support someone who is against God because if it wasnt for him none of us would be here.

So everyone just chill out…Instead of using all your time writing such awful comments what have you done to put a smile on someone’s face today? Thats what Gods love is about. Not what you wear or what you look like. Peace

By Maude

November 8, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

I recieved this email and thank goodness I did!

I will not allow my children or grandchildren to view this filth.

God is all powerful and He will view anyone attending this as a agent of the devil. Do not see this movie! It is a recruitment plan for Satan and will secure your place in Hell for all eternity.

My family will remain safe and Heaven bound!!!

Praise Jesus!

By Jeff

November 8, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Tara:

As I have indicated, I really have no interest. I was basing my comments based upon your description of the scene, as I indicated.

By Jamey Wilson

November 8, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

I read His Dark Materials and I loved it. I will agree that it is anti-organized religion. But it is also one of the most creative and beautiful stories I have ever read.

By marc

November 8, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

read the books first, THEN form an informed opinion please. There is nothing anti-god, atheistic, satanic, anti-Narnia or any other ridiculous descriptive that have appeared over the web. It is simply a powerful story, masterfully told, that has already won numerous prizes and sold over 15 million copies since its first publication 10 years ago. It has nothing to do with Potter, Narnia or the Lord of the Rings. It stands on its own merits. A work of all too rare intelligence.

By Jamey wilson

November 8, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I have to post this…

I just found this on the Catholic Leagues website, warning us about this movie. They want Catholics to read this pamphlet that they have put together, but you have to BUY it!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Glad to see they have the people in mind and not their wallets!

*”The Golden Compass: Agenda Unmasked” is the Catholic League’s response. It provides information about the film, “The Golden Compass,” and details what book reviewers have said about Pullman’s books; a synopsis of his trilogy is also included.

If you would like to order copies, you can do so by sending $5 (includes shipping and handling) to:

Catholic League Publications Dept. 450 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10123

Or order using our online form. (If you choose an electronic copy, a pdf will be emailed to you.)

On orders of 10 or more, the cost is $3 per copy.*

By Thomas

November 8, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I told you so.

Back in August, I told you just what kind of anti- fervor this movie was going to attract.

Frankly, I’ve nothing new to say about it. If people wish to reach for the hall closet and get up in arms over the spiritual goings on in a fictional world, then let them do so. If these crusaders have done all they can to relieve the suffering in their community, to feed the hungry, to cure the sick and to clothe the naked, then I would imagine that they have plenty of free time set aside to swing a sword or two at an imaginary foe.

By Manny

November 8, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

The controversy that has brewed is the greatest advertising this movie has right now. It’s November 8th and this movie is to be out December 7th???

I’ve seen no ads, no TV spots, no buzz, no anything. But this controversy pretty much guarantees that it will make some money.

As for me personally, I’m not going to watch it. Why? Because many of these kinds of publicity stunts masks really bad products.

By DollarFray

November 8, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

“republicans hate the environment…and have proven it over and over”

This is laughable.
You need a course in critical thinking.

“Maybe God will rescue you while you keep up your sprawl, mcmansions, wasting your resources, and materialistic lifestyle…better pray harder….instead of actually doing anything productive…”

A great example of nonsensical reasoning.

By DollarFray

November 8, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

It’s a pretty cheap shot to use this as an opportunity to claim that Christians are trying to create censorship and limit free speech. At issue is parenting and whether young children should be exposed to certain subjects before they can process the information without being harmed. That is a parenting decision. As far as “free speech” is concerned, there are limits on free speech in a civil society. To say that Christians want to tell adults what they can and cannot read is a simplification. I would guess that most Christians and non-Christians alike would agree for example, that child pornography, is wrong, period. Or, overly violent material is unsuitable for young children.

By Helen Galloway

November 8, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

I got this same email a week or so ago. I had never heard of the books, but after reading a little on the internet and watching the trailer for the movie, I went out and got all 3 books! I am about halfway through “The Amber Spyglass” (the final book). I am REALLY enjoying the books. And I can’t wait to go see the movie!

By GOB

November 8, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

I think the most interesting thing to come out of this discussion is that out of about 50 comments, it seems that only a tiny handful have actually read the books.

At least have an idea of what you are talking about before making judgements.

The books are very well written and just like Narnia, can be viewed as simply an entertaining story, or you can appreciate the symbolism and the themes of the writing.

By Jenny

November 8, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Honestly, I do not believe a child will be able to associate the “dust” with original sin. I don’t think a child will think anything about the adult themes in this book/movie. It is an entertaining story. I took a class on children’s lit in college where I was first introduced to this book and also learned many of our most revered children’s books have an underlying “message” that children will never look deep enough to figure out, and neither will most adults.

By L Ranks

November 8, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

I first heard of this book when it became a selection of the Today Show bookclub for children with Al Roker. I routinely screen books that I think my granddaughters might enjoy, so I read it, unaware of any controversy. I decided this book was inappropriate for them at ages 9 and 10. I am glad to see that many others feel the same way.

By Wil

November 8, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Well I’d never heard of it until the promo video on myspace kept stalling my pc on the sign-in page. I guess the plot worked—I started watching the trailer while waiting for my homepage to come up. Now I’m hooked—haha.

off to the book store!

By Jamie

November 8, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

I will not be seeing this movie and am telling everyone I know not to see it.

By Philip Nel

November 8, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Snopes.com’s claims about Philip Pullman’s trilogy are inaccurate. I’ve written them a letter to this effect, which I have reproduced below.

Dear Editors of Snopes.com,

I write to report an error in the Golden Compass entry.

You identify the claim that the Golden Compass film is “based on a series of books with anti-religious themes” as “True.” A better answer would be either “False” or “It’s a matter of debate.” I teach Philip Pullman’s series in my college-level Harry Potter class, and I teach the first book (The Golden Compass) in my Literature for Adolescents class.

One can interpret the novels as anti-religious, but only if you equate the institution with the religion. That is, if a corrupt church is synonymous with Christianity, then, yes, the books are anti- religious. However, if you see a corrupt church as a perversion of Christianity, then you would be hard pressed to support the notion that the books are anti-religious. The church in Pullman’s series is very clearly a flawed institution, and — unlike the church in the contemporary U.S. and U.K. — has the power to govern, to create laws, to impose punishments, and to fight wars. The critique of the church in Pullman’s series is a critique of a human institution that seeks (wrongly) to impose its will on people’s lives.

However, the His Dark Materials series is very invested in spirituality (in general) and Christianity (in particular). Some of its central characters are angels. Ultimately, the series ends up endorsing a Romantic or Transcendentalist notion of Christian fatih. Nature becomes the route to the divine. For Pullman’s characters, heaven is when the soul becomes one with the universe.

To claim that the protagonists “kill God” is also false. The Authority dies while in the care of Will and Lyra, but the Authority is not the creator of the universe. He has falsely claimed to be the creator of the universe, but he is not the creator. If Christians understand God as Creator, then we cannot claim that this Authority is God: he is not a Creator. Also, he’s not killed by Will and Lyra. He dies while they are trying to protect him. In sum, this scene is far more complex than your website portrays it.

Your entry should distinguish betwen the words of a character and the message of the author. To represent a certain point of view is not necessarily to endorse that point of view. So, for example, the quotation “every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling” (The Subtle Knife, p. 50) is taken out of context. Ruta Skadi — the “beautiful, proud, pitiless” Queen of the Witches and a former lover of Lord Asriel (p. 49) — makes this argument to convince the witches to support Lord Asriel, who, she notes “hates the Church” (p. 51). However, supporting Lord Asriel is a morally complex act. He is not a bad character, but nor is he a good character. We are to value his battle against the corrupt church, but not the means through which he wages that battle. He is sympathetic, but also ruthless; smart, but dangerous. So, while it’s true that those words (“every church is the same…”) appear in The Subtle Knife, it’s not clear that they represent Pullman’s position.

The His Dark Materials trilogy is a rich and complex work of fiction. Snopes.com is irresponsible to make the bold, broad claim that it’s “True” that the series is anti-religious. Literature does not work that way. As Emily Dickinson wrote, “Tell all the Truth, but tell it slant — / Success in Circuit lies.” Literature tells the truth slant; rarely does it make bold statements of policy. Some characters may do this — characters created by Philip Pullman, Don DeLillo, and Milan Kundera do make bold statements. But, as any smart reader knows, the character is not the author. To get at the “Truth” of a work of fiction, you need to read more carefully. You need to consider all quotations in context. For these reasons, I caution Snopes.com against making such claims. And I advise you to be more careful, subtle readers.

Sincerely yours,

Philip Nel Associate Professor Director, Program in Children’s Literature Dept. of English, 103 ECS Bldg. Kansas State University Manhattan, KS 66506-6501 U.S.A. www.ksu.edu/english/nelp :: philnel@ksu.edu

By Charlotte

November 8, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

So I received this notice in my email 2 days ago. I read it & was like…here we go again…

In response to some of the comments on here…

1 - not all Christians are “kooks” & yes there are Christians who read “secular” material & actually think for themselves.

2 - Now as far as WHAT someone said about how God is going to view anyone who sees this movie as an agent of the devil & it’ll secure them a place in hell…that’s going a little far. How do you know what God’s going to do? To me…that’s putting Him in a box.

The thing is…the books are fantasy…fiction…not real - just remember that. If you feel that your kids are old enough to read on the level of these books then just remind them of it - just like with Harry Potter & Narnia. I didn’t know anything about the series until I got this email. Immediately I started researching…not hitting the forward button. I enjoyed reading something on Pullman’s website - www.philip-pullman.com - about the meaning of his books…

“As a passionate believer in the democracy of reading, I don’t think it’s the task of the author of a book to tell the reader what it means. The meaning of a story emerges in the meeting between the words on the page and the thoughts in the reader’s mind. So when people ask me what I meant by this story, or what was the message I was trying to convey in that one, I have to explain that I’m not going to explain. Anyway, I’m not in the message business; I’m in the “Once upon a time” business.”

As a Christian, who has just started reading the books (feel free to pick your jaws up off the floor), I don’t see anything, as of yet, that is so anti-God. I would like to know where these quotes of him saying that about his books are coming from (blame it on my experience of research & having to provide documentation for quotes, etc.) Also, if I had a child that wanted to read them I would probably say no if I felt they were too young to understand what was happening, but would allow them to read them if I felt they could handle it. That’s what education is about…expanding the mind. But with parenting, from what I have observed of others & how my parents raised me since I don’t have kids, you should be involved even in what they’re reading. Ask them about it. If it disturbs them or upsets them (unless the book is required for school) tell them they can stop reading. It would also help if you were either reading along with them or have read it before. But the biggest thing to me as a Christian about not banning the books…how else are you going to know what you’re up against in the battle between good & evil, if you don’t know what’s out there? Who knows…the books may be about killing God & be trying to win kids for satan, but they may also solidify someone’s faith & provide them with means of helping others see the truth about God & just how much He actually does love them.

I say… stop trying to boycott if you haven’t read them…go get the books -if you don’t want to support Pullman monetarily because you don’t agree with his personal beliefs, go to the library! - sit down & read the books…then make your choice. That’s the gift of Free Will from God.

HAPPY READING!

By adam

November 8, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

I think that people should go see the movie if they want to and if they don’t they shouldn’t make stuff up to keep others from seeing it. is it actually proven that the author wants people to hate God? even if he does he’s open to his opinion just like christians are open to theirs. just because he wants people to choose their beliefs doesn’t mean he is a satanist. I am christian and think people should be able to choose their religion and no one should be able to force someone else’s religious opinion. I think that if the author had enough guts to give people the other side of things like being atheist then they can do that if they want. I mean it is illegal to influence someones religious beliefs, even your childrens, if they wanna be atheist and you think its wrong then that’s your problem, your kid is alowed to believe what ever they want

By adam

November 8, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

This topic has made me so mad because so far I have seen no factual proof that this author wrote the books about killing God. I think that some parent out there heard a rumor about the books and spread it around and now everyone thinks that the author is a believer in killing God. I have been to the author’s website and no where on there did it say anything about him hating God or that he wrote the books to encourage atheism. I have also heard that a catholic website is asking people to boycott the movie because they think it will seduce children to read the books and then theyll hate God. What a load of bull **! sure it may make kids want to read the book, but that doesn’t mean that they are going to start hating God. you can read a book and not believe in everything that is said in the book. there are many books I have read with controversial issues and just because i don’t hold the same opinion as the author in the book i haven’t just stopped reading the book or forbidden my family from reading it. we live in America and in America you have the ability to choose. you can’t stop your kids from reading this book just because it may or may not have beliefs in it contradicting your beliefs. If your kid reads these books and becomes an atheist, which is very unlikely because it was just some random nutjob’s interpretation of the book that it was anti-christian, then all they are doing is practicing their first ammendment right of freedom of religion. if you forbid your kid from seeing this movie, your technically banning them from practicing this right, which is illegal. it just makes me so angry that one person is saying all this stuff without any proof just because they are so hard headed that they won’t let their children see a fictional movie. I have never read the books but have christian friends that have read it and they did not think they books were about killing God or they obviously wouldn’t have liked them. Most people have read CS Lewis’ Chronicle of Narnia books, and even though the books are based on the Bible, when you are reading the books it isn’t apparent unless you already know. If, and only if, Pullman really wrote his books to tell people a different story, it probably isn’t as apparent reading the story like in CS Lewis’ books. I am so sick of parents being so paranoid about every f*** thing that goes on in this country! You’re kid ain’t gonna die from playing with a toy with paint from China or wherever the f*** the paint is coming from and they ain’t gonna hate God because of a move.

Sorry if I used foul language or mispelled words, I was so angry when I found out about this and when I get angry I typ[e really fast and often mispell thing and use a little profanity.

If you would like to talk to me some more about this subject my email adress is burningzeppelin1079@gmail.com even if you wanna send me hate mail go ahead but just be warned I will email you back and if you send me hate mail I will get very into the subject and will probably cuss alot more than I did earlier so whatever.

By adam

November 8, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

I know this is my third post now but I just read the comment posted by Charlotte. I too went on Pullman’s website and read the same quote that she posted. This quote by the author from his official site means that whoever sent the message above is obviously lying about what the author said to keep people from seeing the movie.

Hope you all Enjoy the movie and books.

If you don’t you might as well get the hell out of this country because you obviously don’t respect the freedom that we have in America

By Allan

November 8, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

Good warning to us parents. You may read what you want as an adult but to an 11 year old kid? No way…Kids are not adults, adults are not kids. Period. To those who do not have kids, you do not have any idea how words - written or unwritten - have great impact on kids. Golden compass’ author Philip Pullman is a professed atheist whose beliefs are offensive to any sane person. His intention is to ruin the catholic church and all that is good in it.

By Tovrin

November 8, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

spoiler ahead

THIS BOOK/MOVIE IS FICTION

come on people, the only person in control of your soul, or lack therein, is you, not hollywood, not the government, or even the church.

THE FIRST PERSON YOUR CHILDREN SHOULD BELIEVE IN IS YOU, THE PARENT. once you have figured that out, letting them watch an exciting movie is just for excitement, not theology.

*get over yourselves, you disgrace God, or yourself otherwise. *

By Diana

November 8, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

What’s the big controversy? There are plenty of novels out there that address issues that were once seen as unfit for the public. Consider titles such as 1984, Animal Farm, Catch 22 and so forth. Our children will in due time grow to become independent adults and teenagers who will make decisions for themselves. Restricting them from viewing an entertainment movie because it indirectly denigrates Christianity does not make sense to me. It’s entertainment! I’m MUCH more concerned with the violence and sexual content seen in most action/adventure films today.

By dax

November 8, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

the golden compass? how about the golden kampong? this movie sucks.

By Lulu1994

November 9, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

I can’t stand it when the God Haters want to cry freedom of speech and diminish the intelligence of people who believe in God and his word to being unable to think unless their “church” tells them what do think. Maybe its the God Haters who can’t think enough for themselves to actually explore a relationship with God and His wisdom, which says to in all things get understanding. The information being presented about this movie, just like all presented about any subject, should be examined and acted upon or not acted upon individually. My God and His word allow us liberty, including the liberty to make decisions for ourselves based on the information we receive and seek out. Thank God he gave me the intelligence to do that. Maybe if the God Haters would stop hating long enough to think with the brain God gave them, they could see that.

By jeff

November 9, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

The alert is as much a freedom of speech right as is publishing the book. Could you imagine what would happen if the book killed Allah, the Islamic world would revolt and the author would need to live under a rock the rest of his life.

As is the right for the Governor to ask people to pray for rain. This country was founded by people who were persecuted for their religious beliefs, yet also understood the need to be open and free we must accept the beliefs or everyone to remain strong.

You may do as you please, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

By KD

November 11, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

There has been talk in the Christian community about these books for some time now. Of course it is more widespread now that Pullman is pushing his movie on the talk shows and the movie is being advertised. If you don’t mind: gay angels, church and priests as the enemy, and an atheist hero killing God at the end—these are the books for you. But if you are disgusted by such topics in a children’s book series, don’t see the movie or buy the books, and be aware that there is an anti-God theme to the series. There is nothing wrong with Christians shunning a movie and books that are clearly aimed at them in a negative fashion.

By Charlotte

November 21, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

ok so here’s my second post. I’m not actually going to say anything about this again other than…just look in to it for yourself before jumping to conclusions…after all innocent until proven guilty right?

Here is some RECENT information that I thought some might be interested in. It’s a brief interview with Philip Pullman on the Today Show when they were discussing his book because it was on Al’s Book Club. So go look at it. I know I found it interesting. It may make you see that perhaps the books are of satan…or it might get you to see that all the hype of promoting atheism and such is not what Pullman was doing. just incase the link didn’t work… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21595083/

God Bless,

Charlotte