The Book Page

By Jeff

November 7, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

Phil:

I maintain from when you first spoke of this book when telling us about the Jewish Book Festival in general:

Trying to follow all laws of both Old and New Testaments is the height of lunacy. Indeed, what few laws there are in the New Testament are said to completely disband the ones of the Old. For, as Paul says, “Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:4-6, NKJV)

“For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.” (2 Corinthians 3:9-11)

“Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” (Galatians 2:11-21, emphasis mine)

Note that I included the entirety of the last passage to show that this debate was indeed central to the Original Church.

Now, I did find many teachings of Paul in my research for this post that are worded as ‘laws’ of the New Testament, but I did not find where these had the direct strength of words spoken directly by God that the laws of the Old Testament did.

By Kate

November 7, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

I love bacon. And barbecue. The image of a pig daintly clutching an apple in its mouth, rotating over an open fire is my image of heaven.

I lust in my heart for George Clooney and one of the dad’s on my daughter’s soccer team (dam* that Jimmy Carter for making it a sin).

And I think evil thoughts about two of my (extremely unpleasant)colleagues.

Sometimes I hate the sinner, but love the sin rather than the other way around.

By Jeff

November 7, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Now that my philsophical questions have been noted, a genuine answer to today’s question:

At one point, Jesus is asked what is the ‘first’ - or ‘greatest’ commandment. He responds “Love the LORD your God with all your heart, your soul, spirit, and strength. And the second is like unto it: Love your neighbor as yourself” (OK, so I can’t remember the exact quote. I had it looked up, but my IE crashed and I don’t want to find it again!”)

At another point, Christ says “You have heard it said ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy’, but I say unto you Love your enemy, pray for those who persecute you….” (again, had the quote researched, IE quit on me)

At a third point, a lawyer comes up to Jesus and asks to sum up the law. Jesus asks him how he would, and he says something similar to what Christ himself would later say (at least as far as text order of the Bible). Jesus tells him that he has pretty much nailed it, but the lawyer asks another question: Who is my neighbor?

Jesus responds with the tale of the Good Samaritan.

In my own life, I don’t do so well with this one. Once you burn me, I have a VERY hard time ever thinking ANYTHING good about you.

There are others I fight with at times - I wasn’t married until 3 weeks ago, I haven’t been a virgin in years - but the whole ‘Love your neighbor’ thing is probably the hardest for me over the course of my life.

By Lily Toad

November 7, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

No shellfish would be the hardest. I could easily live without beef, chicken or pork, but not seafood.

By Kat

November 7, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

I haven’t read this one yet, but I did read The Know-It-All by the same author. It is absolutely hilarious, and recounts AJ Jacobs’ attempt to read the entire Encyclopaedia Britanica. I’ve recommended it to tons of people, including some sales reps for Encyclopaedia Britanica who had never heard of it. Can’t wait to read Living Biblically. I have a very sharp tongue and there’s a lot in the Bible against that. That is by far the hardest thing for me, though I have to admit that I don’t try very hard.

By hotlanta

November 7, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

The withholding sex thing before marriage no way. Gotta try it before I buy it. In sickness and in health will be kinna rough for me also. Because I need to look at my mate and think if he gets sick do I wanna take care of him or push in wheelchair in front of a train. I wonder why do folks think that the not having sex before marriage is only for women as if a man can sow his wild oaks and the woman is suppose to WAIT. If she is a virgin and he has screwed everybody in town she is still sleeping with every woman he has slept with. Thanks hon.

By steve

November 7, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

The hardest thing for me isn’t the things I do, its the things I don’t do. I mean, I haven’t sold all my possessions and given it all to the poor. I don’t spend all my time in the prisons visiting and ministering. When I confess that I am a sinner, I am usually thinking of the things that I have left undone.

By John in Tampa, FLA

November 7, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

The Bible’s rules???

I am having trouble living by my wife’s rules.

By lovelyliz

November 7, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Notice the differences in the appearance and lifestyle of someone who lives the Bible literally and those who believe the Bible, or at least their version of it, is literal truth.

By ron

November 7, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

I cannot live by the Bible’s rules.I was a soldier and the Thou shall not kill thing went over real early in life.I don’t covet my neighbor’s wife.He’s more than welcome to her.If the coveting thing goes beyond the neighborhood,I’m in a bind.The adultry thing is tempting,but expensive.I’m not much into idol worship or idle worship for that matter.No,Iguess I’ll pass on living by the rules.

By V for Vendetta

November 7, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

I’d prefer to live by the basic social truths we have come to accept as human beings, instead of worrying about what some book ripping off the stories of the ancients has to say. Seriously, people, check out Roman and Greek classics and the story of Gilgamesh if you want, many of them served as the basis for what went into the Bible. The story of the flood pre-dates the Bible by a few thousand years.

By shayla

November 7, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

wow what happened to, he who is without sin cast the first stone…he should have not thrown any pebbles. We all sin by thoughts, words, and deeds…hilarious!

By Kate

November 7, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Lily Toad~Is shellfish forbidden in the Bible? This is getting depressing.

I’m looking forward to seeing AJJ. Is anyone else going?

By FCM

November 7, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Jeff-““‘Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.’ This is the most important, the first on any list. But there is a second to set alongside it: ‘Love others as well as you love yourself.’ ” Matt 22:37-39—(The Message)

Interestingly enough the only one of the 10 Commandments not reiterated in the 2nd Testament (aka New Testament) is ‘Remember the Sabbath and Keep it Holy’….that is because under the teachings of the 2nd Testament all days belong God and are numbered. ;o)

When I facilitated a course on the Bible (1st and 2nd Testatments) the group was going on about the ‘laws’ (primarily the Levticus dietary) and that it probably wasn’t that hard….this was hardcore Atkins time for many…..I asked if they had had a pepperoni pizza or cheeseburger that week. Had they had a breakfast including eggs, meat, and cream/butter?—-fortunately being under the guidance of Paul, our group did not have to worry about that pizza!

Ans to Phil’s Question: Coveting is by far the hardest rule to obey if you ask me. Whether its a child or an adult that one bites often!

Sidenotes: Rabbi Kushner writes about the significance of the law in “To Life” (which may be out of print by now not sure). That was the most enlightening book for me on my own quest.

I will probably get this book too. Who knows what questions it will help me pose the next time I facilitate a class.

By Alexis

November 7, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

The most important rule of the Bible is to not be a homosexual, or tolerant of homosexual deviants. The Bible is God’s Holy Word and it is our roadmap to heaven. If you follow the roadmap, you will reach your reward. If you don’t, and you support the gays and their evil liberal agenda, you will suffer the wrath of God, just as Rev. Phelps says you will.

By Atlanta Pearl Girl

November 7, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

I think God loves me just the way I am. Mischeif and all.

Atlanta Pearl Girl

By FCM

November 7, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

OK I struggle with the ‘sex’ question myself…I am not sold that it wasn’t the churches agenda not God’s. I mean I am not advocating bacchanalia….but the Church was certainly battling it when many of the texts were formerly written.

@ steve * I haven’t sold all my possessions and given it all to the poor*

I am not sure that Christ would have been happy had the man done so. I believe his point is to not get so wrapped up in your ‘stuff’ (physical/mental) that you care about it more than you do about helping others. The part that Jeff nor I included in our passage quote on the Greatest commandment is Jesus’ justification: “These two commands are pegs; everything in God’s Law and the Prophets hangs from them.” (Matt 22:40—The Message). If we are to love one another just as God has loved us then we cannot be wrapped up in our agenda.

@lovelyliz—agreed our actions show who/what we are better than anything we ever say.

Cain killed Able. Joseph’s brothers attempted fratracide (they ended up selling him as a slave), many are ok with the death penalty in this country Thou shall not kill thing went over real early in life is very accurate. However, perhaps the law (which in my belief did come straight from heaven) was a simplification of the truth ‘value life’…it puts value on what we have in our very being, to lose sight of that would horrific—especially when viewed from the lens of the ‘stories’ preceeding this commandment of Cain/Able, or Joseph.

OK my 50 cents worth for free…LOL.

By Deborah

November 7, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Alexis - you are a true moron.

By get your mind right

November 7, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Isa 5:14 - Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

One day you will wish you had lived by the bible rules but then it will be too late.

By Nakeah

November 7, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

PEOPLE NEVER FORGET, WE ARE ALL SINNERS SAVED BY GRACE! THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT FAITH. THE AREAS IN WHICH YOUR FAITH LACKS, YOU SHOULD SEE PROGRESSION. IF YOU ARE COMMITTING THE SAME SIN OVER AND OVER AGAIN THE PROBLEM IS WITH YOU NOT GOD.

By EAVDad

November 7, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

The Bible isn’t a rule book, so this is a silly idea.

By lovelyliz

November 7, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Actually the greatest lesson of the Bible can be found in Matthew 22:36

One of the Pharisees tested Jesus with a question, Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

By V for Vendetta

November 7, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

(Sigh)

The fact that people so fervently believe in something so vapid and twisted makes me sad. The energy spent devoting one’s self to the regurgitation of (what amounts to) basic human social mores is reprehensible. Teach people to believe in tolerance, equality, and good will. Leave everything else behind.

You can be a wonderful person, a good person, without believing in all the rest. Most likely, you will be a much more tolerant person if you eschew the often one-sided teachings of many of the major religions. How often have some of these so-called “religious” and “pious” people looked down upon a gay person. How often have the (basically) tried to force their beliefs on others, or told others that they would go to hell for not thinking the same way.

No sir, I prefer to think for myself and go my own way. I live a good life, and I’ll teach my kids the same. Treat people with respect, tolerance, and kindness. Everything else is just fiction. At the end of the day, the only person we really have to answer to is ourselves.

By Tommy

November 7, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

The anger of Alexis, over her cheating husband and her gay son, is thrust upon us again. Alexis, dear, you make these cheesy blogs what they are…

By Jeff

November 7, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

FCM:

I prefer the KJV/NKJV translations (“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it , Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”) simply because they have a depth of meaning that the more modern translations lack.

But I’ll pick Paul as my fully-human Biblical role model any day of the week. To the tune that I once did a paper on his life, taking it as the prime example of how Sin and Forgiveness is viewed in the OT v NT (it was for a Sciptural Lit class and had to be on an overall theme of the Bible, so I chose THE theme of the Bible: Sin and Forgiveness).

In OT, sin is defined rather narrowly, but is permanent and forgiveness temporary. (New sacrifices every year.)

In NT, sin is defined very broadly, but is temporary and forgiveness is permanent.

Granted, there is more complexity than this, but in general this is how it was viewed at the time.

By Jeff

November 7, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

V:

My friend, there are literally BILLIONS of ‘good people’ burning in Hell this very second.

Think of it this way:

If I believe and it is not, I have lost NOTHING.

If I believe not and it is, I have lost EVERYTHING.

By V for Vendetta

November 7, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Seems like a bad reason to believe to me … . just in case.

There is NO hell, it is simply an invention created years ago to ape the idea of an “underworld” prevalent in so many other large scale religions. You must remember, at one time the Greeks and the Romans religion consisting of many different gods was the primary faith system in the world. Before that, you had ancient belief systsms taking shape in what is now India (the epic of Gilgamesh tells us this), and even before that you had the idols of the Sumerians discovered along the banks of the Tigris and the Euphrates.

All of those religions had some semblance of an “underworld,” or “hell.” This is not something unique to the bible, it is simply unique to human creativity, a way to warn people of inappropriate actions and deeds.

There is more to this life than we can possibly know and understand. It is foolish to postulate and predict what comes next. We should worry about being good and kind people now, in this life — for no other reason than it is simply the right thing to do.

By Charles

November 7, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Are you kidding me? 98% of African Americans are completely confused and or live in a fantasy world…

African Americans and anything suggesting spiritually are mutually exclusive in the real world. Every rule, law, and injunction in both Testaments of the Bible would challenge the people of God with the same degree of difficulty…

By V for Vendetta

November 7, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

To believe in the Bible as if it were fact, Jeff, is the same as believing in The Odyssey, Gilgamesh, The Aeneid, Beowulf, etc. There is no difference. All tell stories, all have moral tales, and all have the intention of educating people on certain ways of behaving. Their influence on the Bible is undeniable, and even helps to explain the vast difference in styles and messages between the testaments.

By Jeff

November 7, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

V:

I really have neither the time nor space to go into a full-on Apologetics lesson here, but since this is a book blog I will mention some books that make the very points I would:

The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith (both by Lee Strobel) in particular are AMAZING, and while I haven’t read The Cross Examination of Jesus Christ by local author Randy Singer, I have read the fictionalized companinion to it The Cross Examination of Oliver Finney, and since Finney was GREAT (and even managed to throw a pretty good apologetics lesson into a riveting novel), I will assume that The Cross Examination of Jesus Christ is equally as good.

By FCM

November 7, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

@ Jeff — I have The Message bookmarked…so that was the translation I gave you….As I have ‘said’ before in biblical discussions with you I like the prose of the KJV or NKJV….I agree w/your concept of grace.

@ V — Jesus taught “Treat people with respect, tolerance, and kindness.”—-the Golden Rule. He dined with lepers, tax collectors, and prostitutes. He went to the very dregs of society (or they came to Him).

By Fact not Fiction

November 7, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

I worked with a guy who was an ordained minister. He was married for 17+ years. Once the divorce was final he lived his life as a gay man. I spoke to him about it, and he felt that God had tapped him to wave a big old raibow flag to lead people to Christ.

He is one my favorite people.

By Charles

November 7, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

I am never amused by the comments of vain men and women. They come a dime a dozen and cheaper…

In an attempt to deceive others, they deceive only themselves.

Except a man or woman come upon the presence of God, he or she is unable to hear or see, literally and figuratively.

By lovelyliz

November 7, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

I am not convince that Alexis is anything more than Kip Dynamite.

By jezreel

November 7, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

This is the best to answer all of this crazy talk about the law of God. Jesus help them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1K1n806R4

By HisGirl

November 7, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

I subscribe to a website called “Fischtank”, a guy who takes day to day life and help put life into perspective as God wants us to live. Actually breaking down some of the versus and the bible and how to apply to out life in this century… Here is a reading from 9/6/07….

Great expectations Thursday, September, 06, 2007 by John Fischer

Life isn’t fair; honor God anyway.

No, it’s not a scripture verse; it’s my one-line summary of the book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament. It’s a pretty accurate one, too, as I’m pretty confident anyone who has studied the book would agree. It’s puzzling to think that a philosophical book about the meaninglessness of life would be in the Bible, but I think it’s only puzzling due to our warped sensibilities living in a relatively affluent culture in this time in history.

Let’s face it: we have extravagant expectations and we are disappointed when life deals us what in any other time or culture would be simply what everyone learns to put up with. We expect to be happy all the time, to never grow old, to have successful relationships, to be constantly entertained, and to have the ease and luxury of kings and queens, and as Christians, we mindlessly transfer all these expectations over to what God will bless us with if we believe. We are surprised by Mother Teresa’s dark night of the soul because we expected everything to shine so brightly, especially for those closest to God. Well, hello, I don’t find any such promises in my Bible. I just find: Life isn’t fair; honor God anyway.

Actually, this is not too far from the secular version of the same thing — Life sucks; then you die — with one very big exception: God. God makes all the difference, but the differences are more in terms of intangibles such as thin rays of hope, the intervention of meaning, the potential for real love, and the ultimate consummation of all the things we really want when we die. But there are not a whole lot of guarantees about this life when one believes in God. Things are not going to suddenly go well for you when you believe. They might even get worse. No, it just means that God is there, and that’s a pretty big deal.

We need to work a lot harder at removing what is cultural from our interpretation of God and the truth of the Bible. We need to stop reading the scriptures with rose-colored glasses, and accept what it says, especially when it doesn’t agree with the world the way we think it should be.

By Charles

November 8, 2007 7:03 AM | Link to this

The vast majority of individuals in the black nation Israel fail every rule, law, and injunction in both Testaments of the Bible with the same degree of difficulty.

The black nation of Israel through their integrationist leadership have committed two evils; they have forsaken God, the fountain of living waters, and hewed themselves out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

African Americans, the people of God, have two choices. Repent of integration and return to the fountain of living waters, or stay the course and die in the streets of America; the young, old, rich, poor, so-called educated and unlearned.

By LB

November 8, 2007 7:13 AM | Link to this

I never had sex until I married at 35. I have never had a drink. I don’t play politics with the boss to get ahead. I don’t use foul language and never raise my voice. I do, however eat wrong, blame others and think bad thoughts especially when others cut me off in traffic. That’s when I rely on Jesus to fill in the gap. Jesus is the only perfect Bible obeying person.

As for the person who said they want to try sex before buying. Buying what?

By DJ

November 8, 2007 7:48 AM | Link to this

Personally, I’d rather see more “christians” spending more of their time trying to live according to the bible and less of their time trying to shove it down the rest of our throats.

By Moses

November 8, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

So, who’s up for stoning some w**?

By Alvin

November 8, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Charles it so sad the hate you are full of.I am not going to come back to you with hate.I will just pray for you.God made us all.You are so blesses to live in America and be able to express your opinion no matter who it hurts.

By Alvin

November 8, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

Charles it so sad the hate you are full of.I am not going to come back to you with hate.I will just pray for you.God made us all.You are so blesses to live in America and be able to express your opinion no matter who it hurts.

By Charles

November 8, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Alvin, you need to read your Bible with some degree of understanding. I’m sorry that I don’t have the time to educate the misinformed. I am too absorbed with the people within my circle of influence.

If telling the truth means that I’m hateful, then I choose to be hateful according to your perverted standards. If the choice is between telling the truth and as a consequence people are hurt, then I choose to hurt people according to the standards of this present generation.

Beware of those who would call good evil and evil good etc… The present world is turned upside-down for profit. My commission is to turn it right side up for justice.

By the way, America is blessed to have a citizen filled with the Holy Ghost that is capable of saving her from the hands of her enemies foreign and domestic; Black and White joined together.

By S.C. BBQ Boy

November 8, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

Sadly the author and many that have written on this blog bring out is what most of the world believes. That the Bible is a book of rules, of do’s and do nots. The Bible is a book about relationships. The relationship between a loving God and the humans He created. Take a look at John 3:16. For God so loved the world (thats us )that he gave His only son (Jesus),that whoever(thats us again)believes in him(Jesus)shall not perish but have eternal life.(NIV)

By V for Vendetta

November 8, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Jeff - I’ve read The Case for Christ. I have trouble buying the various arguments coming from a man who so fervently denied believing, and then flip-flopped his entire belief system. Also, at the end of the day, many of his arguments require some degree of FAITH to believe in them. Seems to me, that kind of defeats the purpose of PROOF.

I’ll NEVER hold somone’s beliefs agsint them, as long as they don’t infringe upon mine — it’s your right to believe whatever you want. But in my OPINION, organized religion churns out collective sheep, and little else.

By Jeff

November 8, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

V:

Read the ancient accounts of a Jew from circa AD 30 - 70 named Saul. He was a student of Gamaliel, one of the most prominent Jews of the time. Saul himself was a ‘Pharisee of Phariees’ - in other words, one of the more well known.

You’ll find that sometime around AD 40 or so, the accounts will turn completely against him. They will begin to call him something along the lines of ‘Renegade Saul’.

This ‘Renegade Saul’ mentioned in the Jewish history of the time in question is none other than the very man everyone knows today as ‘Apostle Paul’.

I mention him to bring up a perfectly valid point about Strobel:

His experience is what happens to us ALL when we come to the truth about Christ. We can’t help it. Prior to knowing the truth, we are believing a lie.

Does it make sense to continue to believe a lie when you know the truth?

Or does it make sense to turn from your error upon knowledge of the truth?